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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:22 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:43 am
Posts: 18
Hello together,

first sorry for my english. I think it's not so well. I hope you can understand me.

Meantime I bought 4 Sony PS3 cameras and so I have the hope to capture two dancing actors.
I know, that this system is for the capturing of one person. So I try first to capture the first person and in a second step the second person (all Person in one video)
Because one of the person is always in front of the other, I thought to use 4 cameras in each corner of the room are enough to capture the movements of the person.
But when I look on the animation, there are lot of movements, which my person didn't do.

Is there a way, a trick, to capture 2 persons one after the other?
Or is there a plan to modify the software, that 2 of 4, or 3 of 4 cameras are enough to capture all movements of one person?

A similar problem is, when the person carry something. For example a box. So one of the cameras or two can't capture on of the hands/arms.

Thanks and best regards

Stephan


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2354
Location: Los Angeles
Hi Stephan,

Try arranging your cameras in a half circle (in other words around one half the room, not all the way around.) Also, make sure the cameras are far enough away that they all can see the action being performed. Setting the camera high up (between 2 to 3m) also seems to help.

Take a look at the four camera views this latest iPi demo movie to get an idea for good distance and height. The camera distance might be farther away than you might expect (I think I was too close to the performer in my earliest tests):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK2H-9HhAVA

Good luck!

Greenlaw

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Los Angeles
By putting the cameras in a half circle will enable you to record 2 people?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2354
Location: Los Angeles
I don't think that's what he was asking...
s.app wrote:
Is there a way, a trick, to capture 2 persons one after the other?
Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think he's trying to do two separate passes to animate two characters in one scene.

This could be tricky depending on the complexity of the shot. I would record the first pass to an additional video camera (a regular video camera not connected to the computer,) and play it back on a viewable monitor during the second pass so the performer can interact with it. You can sync up the performances in your 3D program or in a mocap mixing/editing program.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Los Angeles
No, I think he is pretty clear that he wants to capture once and process twice. Both actors would be contained in 1 video and then the attempt to mocap each actor separately from this video. The problem he says he is realizing is from visual occlusion (i.e. actor is holding a box). In the dance, one actor is always visually occluding part of the other actor.

Now enters his question: "Is there a way, a trick, to capture 2 persons one after the other? (all Person in one video)"

I think what he meant to say was process 2 persons one after the other not capture 2 persons one after the other.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
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Location: Los Angeles
Okay, I understand now. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Yeah, if it was 2D, it would just be a matter of comping the clean plate over one person, but that doesn't work so easily with multiple views. I think the only option here is multiple passes synched to video playback as described above. That gets tricky if the characters actually have to touch each other though. That's where a mocap editor comes in, but I guess he's trying to avoid that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:46 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Los Angeles
Yeah, optically it sounds like it would be a nightmare to try to accomplish.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:47 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:43 am
Posts: 18
Hello together,

many thanks for your replies.

Yes it's right, that I want to capture once and process twice. Both actors should be contained in 1 video and then the attempt to mocap each actor separately from this video. It is also correct, that I have visual occlusion (i.e. actor is holding a box). In the dance, one actor is always visually occluding part of the other actor.
I tried to arrange my cameras in a half circle. But I still have problems with the visual occlusions.
In my test I carry a box. Walk forward and back, then I turned around.
During the whole movement I have problems, because the hands won't catch correctly.
And the lower extremities aren't better.

I want to go this way with two actors in 1 video, because the dancing parts are very difficult two dance alone. And to arrange the both characters in the 3D Animation Software (i.e. Iclone) is very difficult and complex. So I had the hope, that 4 cameras in each corner could avoid the visual occlusions, because 2 or 3 cameras could catch the parts of the characters correctly. But if one point is only correct, when all of the 4 cameras can catch it, then it is clear, that the capturing works not so as I hoped.
I hope in the future there is a solution for my problem.

Best regards
Stephan


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2354
Location: Los Angeles
I know you can use some props within reason. For example, LightDog has a video of the performer bouncing a basketball, and I've done a little using a stick for a sword. I think so long as the object doesn't occlude too much of the actor for too many frames, it's okay.

With that in mind, you might try having the performer hold a stick that's the width of the box to keep hands hands properly spaced instead holding the box.

Good luck!

G.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:43 am
Posts: 18
Ok.
Of course I can use instead of a box a stick and then replace in the 3D software the stick through the box again.
The box should be a simple example to illustrate the visual occlusion.
A dance partner, I can unfortunately not be replaced with a stick.

Stephan


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