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 Post subject: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:48 pm
Posts: 81
Will the Kinect work? Anyone try it? Just wondering.


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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 1759
Location: Los Angeles
I don't think Kinect can work with iPi Studio. From what I understand, the Kinect sytem isn't really doing motion capture, rather it recognizes anticipated motions and responds to them.

That doesn't mean it can't someday be used for motion capture but even it it did, a single camera system wouldn't be very accurate for 3D tracking. You will probably need at least two cameras to get enough real depth information for realistic motions, and for the price of one Kinect you can buy five PS3 Eye cameras.

This is just my 99 cent bargain brand opinion of course. If anybody here has better informed knowledge about the technology behind Kinect, please post; I'm curious too. :)

G.

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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:48 pm
Posts: 81
Kinect has two sensors and can track two people moving. Hooks to older xbox's with usb and needs a power cord.

http://kotaku.com/5576002/here-are-kine ... ical-specs

Two kinects should out do 6 PS3 cams. And 3 kinects hooked to usb3 ports would be a killer setup.

The price is not going to kill anyone that can afford the grand for ipi.

Look this:
http://kinectgamestore.com/games/your-s ... s-evolved/

Dale


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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 1759
Location: Los Angeles
Yes, but it's still basically tracking a 2D plane. There's some depth but it's only from two points that are pretty close to each other. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the tracking is pretty limited compared to what we can already do with iPi and four PS3 cameras, and for a lot cheaper. Even if you start adding more Kinects, I'm not sure you're actually getting any additional data than you would with multiple PS3 cameras.

But like I said, this really isn't my area of expertise. I only know what I've read in those same articles you cited.

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Last edited by Greenlaw on Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 1759
Location: Los Angeles
Here's an interesting article somebody pointed me to early this morning:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/11/ ... work/all/1

What made me wonder about the current limitations for motion capture is this bit:

Quote:
That’s where the Xbox’s processor comes in: translating the movements captured by the Kinect camera into meaningful on-screen events. These are context-specific. If a river-rafting game requires jumping and leaning, it’s going to look for jumping and leaning. If navigating a Netflix “Watch Instantly” menu requires horizontal and vertical hand-waving, that’s what will register on the screen.

It has an easier time recognizing some gestures and postures than others. As Kotaku noted this summer, recognizing human movement — at least, any movement more subtle than a hand-wave — is easier to do when someone is standing up (with all of their joints articulated) than sitting down.

So basically it anticipates what the motions are going to be, and tries to recognize those motions from the user.

Of course this just explains how the current X-Box games work using Kinect, and doesn't mean the technology can't be used for actual motion capture. It will be interesting to see how developers apply this technology for content creation.

G.

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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:08 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:13 pm
Posts: 801
It is not possible to use Kinect on PC as of yet because of the obvious problem with drivers. Microsoft made it clear they do not plan releasing PC drivers for Kinect. Moreover, Microsoft made it very clear they do not like the idea of someone making PC drivers for Kinect.

Status of open-source Kinect driver

The Open Kinect project

Alternative is to port our software to Xbox. Again, we talked to Microsoft and they do not like this idea. We cannot port software to Xbox without official Xbox SDK and Microsoft's permission. Xbox is a closed platform.

By the way, putting together multiple Kinects will never ever work, because Kinect uses structured light approach for reading scene depth:

Video explaining how Kinect reads scene depth

Multiple Kinects in one room will interfere and will not work at all.

To sum it up, motion capture with Kinect is not possible yet.

If we resolve the problem with drivers, Kinect will make a nice entry-level animation solution. Due to obvious problem with occlusion in any single-camera system, Kinect will be no better then a 2-camera setup of current version of iPi software, but with smaller capture volume.


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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 44
Accelerometer and Depth-sensing are cracked.
http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/11154/
I don't know if he's doing it for the contest though and may have just done it for the challenge and may not release the driver.
M$ just want's to keep the Kinect to itself until Windows 8 where it will be natively supported. So worst-case scenario we'll have to wait until that's released.

On a side note- I was wondering if ipisoft could use Kinect data to run some rudimentary rotoscoping/masking function to enable multiple actors??

Edit: side-side note- Voice control would be sick for iPi Recorder through Kinect, for doing one person recording. Commands like "Action!", and "Cut" while being able to stand in t-pose would cut down on the time it would take to start acting and cut down on editing. Auditory feedback like a "beep" could let you know if your command was recognized.

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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:48 pm
Posts: 81
OK, It seems that you would have to cover over any additional Kinect infrared light sources if using more than one then.

In the best setup I can think of you would need three of them, One in front-infrared on, two on the sides-infrared light source off at 60 degrees or so. Add one or more PS3 cameras in the back and it might good enough to capture two or more actors.

But with out the driver information and software that can record and process the data streams to motion capture, this in not going to happen soon.

Dale


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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 1759
Location: Los Angeles
GR1F1ThH wrote:
Edit: side-side note- Voice control would be sick for iPi Recorder through Kinect, for doing one person recording. Commands like "Action!", and "Cut" while being able to stand in t-pose would cut down on the time it would take to start acting and cut down on editing. Auditory feedback like a "beep" could let you know if your command was recognized.

Forget Kinect, but using voice commands to run iPi Recorder with any type of camera is a brilliant idea!

I was trying to use a wireless mouse to trigger Record and Stop commands in Recorder, but the range of my mouse was too short to be effective. Voice command would be perfect for this sort of thing.

I have a Logitech USB microphone that should work well for this. Maybe I can perform a test using a voice activated macro to toggle the spacebar. Let you know if this works.

BTW, I just learned this morning that I can use the spacebar in Recorder to initiate a new take and stop it. Nice! :)

G.

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 Post subject: Re: xbox 360 Kinect?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:22 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 21
Re wireless activation i think you need a couple of seconds of blank scene before the performer appears in the scene to give ipi a chance to seperate the actor from the background. I think the temptation to trigger from the 'stage' might compromise peoples capture sessions


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