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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:58 am 

Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 4:52 pm
Posts: 21
Hello all. : )

I'm new to this IPI forum and looking very intently to getting some new cameras n cables etc to start my own home mocap system! Here are my current computer specs (I built this for my 3d rendering for gpu renderer redshift3d and octane), and I would appreciate your input as to your best recommendations for my current situation.


My current computer:

-cpu: i7 6850k
-GPU: 4 x gtx1070
-windows 7: on an NVME 256 ssd
-32gigs Ram
-ssd, 2 hdds

I'm guessing that I have at least 2 ubs controllers on my mb.. (it's a pretty newer ones.. so I hope it has two). However, I don't have any free pcie slots or even pci slots left for extra controller to be installed (my four 1070 is covering all the board, so non of the 1x or pci slots are available), so I can use maximum of FOUR PS eye cameras only. Unless my usb 3.0 controller allows me to connect 3 PS eye camera to each controller at slower speeds? (maybe 40fps, or 50fps?) then I can use 5 or 6 cameras.. what do you think..

Also, does IPI soft benefit from having multiple GPUS? in recording and in processing tracking in studio? It would be nice to utilize the FOUR 1070s for some function in IPI.. : ) Also read that the 3.5 beta has 2.5 faster processing than previous versions but only in ONE gpu mode.. maybe one gpu use is better then?

Or I could go with Kinect v2 camera set up.. which requires that I put in windows 10.. (I can put that on one of my ssds and boot win10 just for IPI with Kinect v2). However, looking at the samples from snapz, I really want to go with PS eye set up (he did some good ones with only 4 PS eyes in his older times : )

and lastly, my other option is to build a new pc with i7 7700k and two 780ti (my older cards laying around), and put in one or two more usb controllers and use SIX PS eye camearas for full 60fps..


any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:30 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 1931
Location: Moscow, Russia
Hi

Multiple GPUs are good for tracking of "heavy" configurations like 8+ PS Eyes. For configurations covered by the Basic license (up to 2 Kinects, up to 6 PS Eyes) tracking speed increase from using multiple GPUs is not so great, and sometimes one may even notice a decrease. And yes, the new "fast" tracking algorithm introduced for Kinects does not currently support multiple GPUs.

For recording, GPU performance is not important. But the number of USB controllers is. Intel chipsets usually include 2 USB 2.0 controllers, so this is 4 PS Eyes at full 60 fps or 6 at 40-50 fps. However, MB may contain an additional USB 3.0 controller which (if compatible with PS Eye) may allow you to connect more PS Eyes at full speed. Other components look more than adequate for recording even with "heavy" camera configurations.

If you choose dual Kinect v2, you'll not only need Win 10, but you'll also need another PC because of limitation in Kinect SDK - single Kinect per PC. However, for recording with Kinect v2 a inexpensive low-mid range laptop is usually sufficient (given it satisfies Kinect v2 hardware requirements).


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:05 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 721
Location: Florida USA
...

That machine config will run almost any program just fine with 2 graphics cards, as I have been reading Nvidia has mostly dropped support for over 2 cards with the 10 series cards anyway.

I personally would drop to only using 2x 1070 top 2 pci-e slots, select to try both ways with iPi Studio processing, you can set iPi to only run off a single card, even if 2 are installed.

If mobo has no lower pci-e x1 slot, you can plug a add in USB 3 - 2 or 4 port card into a pci-e x 4 slot also.

You can use distributed recording with PS Eyes also, but seems kind of over kill just for 6 cams, unless you have a machine already set up, or a laptop with DirectX11 compatible graphics, but I am not sure on-board video will work as good as a dedicated graphics card, even if it is a cheap little card.

Personally, I would reconfigure the main 6850k machine to handle 6 cams, you will be better off overall and still have enough graphics power to run any games or programs.

Not really sure why it was chosen to run quad 1070s anyway, could have went with 1x 1080 Ti and get the same performance, or very close for less cost, but probably the 1080 Ti wasn't out yet when you bought your components.

You need to actually check in your Nvidia control panel if the 4x cards are even all active, if green bar is only under 2 of the 4, the other 2 are paper weights on the machine.

iPi processing runs primarily off the GPU now, very little CPU is involved, or amount and speed of DRAM and I also found personally that running the machine in balanced power mode without over clocking the CPU works just as well with iPi processing, with less heat and power consumption, but still set graphics card to prefer maximum performance, I only run 1X 970 FTW and processing using Low Res tracking option I get 2.7 fps on stock clock of that card, I can over clock the card by 100 MHz and get 2.9 fps, using Hi Res tracking option that drops significantly to 1.6 fps, just depends on how well you can track using Low Res option I guess and dealing with any tracking issues that arise and how they are handled.

I have an NVME drive also with Win 10 on it, but I saw no difference when recording, or processing with iPi using it as the main Boot drive over my OCZ SSD, it is the OCZ/Toshiba 400 and I found it has some issues anyway as the Boot drive, so I just use it as a storage drive now.

...


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:26 am 

Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 4:52 pm
Posts: 21
Thanks for the replies snapz and ipi.

I NEED the machine with 4x1070 for 3d rendering (it's after long research and user discussion at redshift3d). The redshift3d and Octane app can use all the gpus availble and I'm benefitting from all four. (some has 7 gpus on one machine but that's another thread).

Anyways, I cannot (or choose not to take out any of the four cards) take off the 1070 to make more slots available for an extra USB controller, so I would have to go KINECT v2 route, so I went and placed an order for one. I will start off with Kinect v2 and then maybe add another one to make it 2 x Kinect v2 and see how things go. My workroom is quite small (around 3.3m x 4.6 m) so I couldn't use PS3 cams in a circle anyways. (maybe rectangular). I have a livingroom with 4m x 7.5m which I could use for 6PS3 cams down the line if 2 KINECTS v2 prove to me unsuable for some shots (fast).

I can build another computer with i7 7700 and use my older 780ti x 2 for PS3 cams.. and on that computer I can put as many USB controllers as I need. probably just one extra will do for 6x PS3. My wife is not going to be happy about all those usb extensions cable all over the livingroom.. lol

I just hope I can be as precise and accurate as you Snapz in capturing some motion data with PS3 later on when I get to them.


As far as processing the videos, I saw not much improvent of using 2 or 4 over just one gtx 1070. sometimes it goes really fast, but for sample 4PS3 vides, it was going really slow.. maybe 3fps? or so. but compared to 3d rendering which can take anywhere between 10secs to 2 mins a frame.. that's not bad.


I'll try the KINECT v2 when it arrives and post some samples, as I will probably need some more pointers for an optimal setup. I saw that Little rain posted some videos recently on how to setup two KINECT v2s on his porch.




Kenneth


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:22 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 721
Location: Florida USA
...

I understand the 4x GPU now, there is ways to get all 4 active yes, and work with certain programs for rendering, or mining machines, but in general gaming or standard programs, most won't even need 4x, example would be Adobe After Effects only benefits from 1 GPU that I am aware of, but true, I am not sure iPi processing would benefit or even be able to use all 4 GPUs to much good and definitely not at 4x fps processing speed.

Dual 780 Ti should run iPi Studio pretty good, but not going to see 3 fps tracking speeds using High Res option, probably more like 1.5 fps on 4-PS Eye tracking, Kinect v2 would do better speed, but you probably won't use that machine for processing since you have the much better one already to use as the Master computer.

You will loose at least .2-.3 fps for every PS Eye cam added to a machine, so if 4x GPU was processing 4 cams at 3 fps, 6 cams will drop it to approx. 2.5 fps and your right it is possible iPi Studio will process better with only 2x GPU, but I am sure once set up you will try it both ways.

I track now mostly using Low Res speed and get 2.7-2.9 fps if I OC my GTX 970 FTW GPU 100 MHz, but if I get trouble areas, I switch back to High Res speed for those areas until past them, then switch back to Low Res asap and it works well for me, but I can't recommend this style for everyone.

Of course you could set up the smaller machine with an SSD for better write speed just for recording with 6 PS Eyes and then transfer the videos you want to keep and track onto a USB external storage drive and process them with the main machine set up in another room, once recorded with an SSD, iPi will read the files fine from an HDD external drive.

You would need a second computer of some sort anyway for dual Kinect v2, but just for recording purposes and won't need to be very powerful, it just has to have Win 8 or 10 and a small graphics card would be better than CPU graphics probably, ( I think Greenlaw is recording with a mini computer and Win 10 with on-board graphics), but you would have to upgrade to Win 10 on your main machine also to run them, Win 7 won't run Kinect v2, as Maslov already pointed out.

Most home users/small studios do have space constraints and even 3m x 4m for 2 kinects is fairly tight, you won't get much performance space even setting them at 45 degree angled to center, but yes that small won't support 6-PS Eyes well at all in circle set up with any performance area at all.

As far as the living room, you can run the cabling around the walls to hide them a lot out of sight and the cams are really small and could permanently fix them off small angle brackets, after you first test various locations for them, and they would be hardly noticeable and still be able to use the room daily, just move whatever furniture needed when recording and drape white sheets over problem areas to limit color overlap on the video for tracking later.

Kinect v2 will work ok for many motions, iPi has improved that system quite a bit, but it's not their fault that the sensors do incur more occlusion spots when doing certain motions, or you adjust your performance to try to limit this effect with just 2 sensors.

It is possible to record some less articulate dance motions with Kinect, but since I had 6-PS Eyes permanently set up, I didn't need both systems running.

Keep posting, I and many others would like to see the results you get using either system and iPi.

Good Luck!

...


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:30 pm 

Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 4:52 pm
Posts: 21
the tracking speed is really good with my new windows 10 and one gtx 1070. for the fast tracking beta algorithm, i've see it go as high as 43 FPS. but for 4PS3 example file, it's goes to 6-7 fps.


I've been testing with my new Kinect v2 and so far as long as I don't move too fast or hide parts of my body, then i'm okay. tried doing a 360 and my back arm went off flying.. : )
Are there any tips on keeping the fps rate while recording with Kinect v2? sometimes it drops to 26-7 fps.. and it never reaches full 30.. stays at around 28-9.. am I doing something wrong?


I also ordered a playstation move controller and a bluetooth dongle for me to try mounting it on my head. Head tracking in mocap studio really doesn't work well. I hope the calibration and usage of the move controller won't give me too much trouble as some as posted here. If it's all good, then I'm going to buy two more for hands.

Hey snapz, do your dancers wear 3 controllers while you capture them with your 6PS3? head, and two hands?




KC


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:27 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 721
Location: Florida USA
...

You say you are getting 6-7 fps using the 4-PS Eye test files from iPi with only 1 GTX 1070, is this tracking on High Res option? and with all actor options maxed, shoulders from video, head tracking on and very flex spine option?
I think you are stating that fps rate with head tracking off, with PS Eyes head tracking gives a pretty good hit to fps once turned on, but to me should be turned on always, using a head Move or not, in my opinion.

I may have to break down and get a GTX 1080 Ti if just one card shows doubling, or higher fps tracking with head tracking on.

I don't think that small fps drop with Kinect will matter, I am pretty sure it is common, I don't think you are doing anything wrong, but again, I am not a regular user of Kinect, but 28-30 fps should be fine.

I did try the fast tracking with a Kinect 360 recording and it kept loosing connection on the arms and legs too easily to me, maybe with Kinect v2 this is much more limited, but only using one sensor won't give you the 360 rotations, or any tracking of occluded body parts, those have to be filled in manually by guessing at location of part, then running the Refine function, but you can get it looking pretty good with a little time in clean up right inside of iPi Studio.

Correct, to get head tracking to work with either Kinect versions, you must use a head mounted Move and Hand controllers will make a difference also, hand controllers are really a must for either Camera system for a better final outcome and using the Refine function after all Move data is applied, than always apply the Moves data once again as the final step before export.

I only record performances with hand controllers, I have never used a head controller, but you can with PS Eyes recordings also, I just never saw a need to, we just had a discussion about this under the Videos Index/Move gloves, if you wanna look.

Other users are much more familiar with Kinects recordings, although I have used both systems, I just didn't care for the results with Kinects, but I think iPi has put more effort into their development lately, so for many easier motion tracking scenarios, it may be just as good and much easier to set up and use for sure, just for high speed and very articulate motions, they just can't keep up with the PS Eyes in my opinion and I don't need both systems set up anyway.

Space for PS Eyes is usually the killer for users, especially home set ups, and to get a large enough capture volume to do any performing in, along with a few other strict requirements for getting the best recordings to track well, why many just opt for the less accurate Kinect and make needed adjustments needed in post.

You can use the forum search function and get some good answers to many questions that have already been asked and answered really well.

Hope this helps, Good Luck!

...


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:42 am 

Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 4:52 pm
Posts: 21
for the 4 PS3 sample file, ONE 1070 gives this result: (double or quad didn't make any difference)

7.6 *head tracking off, *from arm position, *Spine (doesn't affect much), * High rez

12 same as above but *Low rez


3.5 *head trackinig ON, *Tracked from video, *Very Flexible Spine, * High rez

5.7 same as above but *Low rez

==============================================================

So, you are right.. if even 1070 gives double the speed compared to a 970, if you get the 1080ti, you could have around 6.5 or even 7.. full option at low rez.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:45 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 721
Location: Florida USA
...

Ok, sounds more like it with those maxed specs.

Yeah, I been wanting to upgrade, but damn, $780 for 1080 Ti FTW, and not sure it will fit in my ATX case without modding it a bit, I was waiting for price drop since AMD releasing Vega now, maybe they will drop the Ti price, no real telling with EVGA, or Nvidia, doubtful anytime soon, since I am seeing that 1080 Ti is a beast of a performer, on par with the Titan XP.

That is very good for a single 1070 too though, all options maxed, knock about .6 off for added 2 cams, still about 5 fps and for over $300 cheaper for the 1070 FTW model, seems like a better alternative, since I too only use it for iPi and video renders, and 3D packages, not gaming.

Thanks for the info. on it.

...


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:38 pm 

Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 4:52 pm
Posts: 21
Thats why I went with 1070s instead of 1080tis. For some reason although 1080ti has 75%more cuda cores.. the rendering speed were only about 20% faster but the price is almost double in korea compared to a 1070. So a guy who has 10machines with 4x1080 render farm along with 1070 told me that 1070s are much more cost effective.

You should wait. Prices always come down.. and also look for them in craigslist. I remember seeing a pair ofb1080tis for 600 each almost new. I think if you get a used one from someone who had light use you will get a much better deal.

Snapz, can I get 3 PS3s to wok with One USB 3.0 controller?. At a slower capture fps?. If this is doable then I can try 5 on my machine.. 3 on usb3 and 2 on my usb 2. What do you think..


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