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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:30 pm
Posts: 16
Hey I'm new here so sorry if this is in the wrong section but im new to mocap as well and I wanted your input.

I have a room that's about 5.38x3.65 square meters. Would it be better for 2 kinect cameras or 6 Playstation eye cameras? Also something i've been curious about do I need a green screen (I already have one) and a mocap suit and why would it be better to use multiple different cameras (I've heard alot of people recommend it but not really a reason why) is it to get all angles? The kind of animating I'm doing is a fast paced fight scene between two different characters

Thank you so much any help would be greatly appreciated


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:20 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2038
Location: Moscow, Russia
Hi
The size of the room is relatively small, so it's better suited for Kinects. However, the kind of motions you're going to capture will be better captured with PS Eyes. They provide 60 fps for fast motions compared to 30 fps of Kinect. Also there are more points of views due to greater number of cameras compared to Kinects. And that reduces the problem of occlusion especially helpful with multiple actors.
The problem with PS Eyes is that their FOV is not very "tall". So when the camera is placed in a regular horizontal position actors should be at least 2 meters away from cameras to be fully visible. You can try to mitigate this problem by placing cameras close to the floor and ceiling (by the room's perimeter) so they look not horizontally (into the room's center). For 2 actors we recommend to use at least 8-10 PS Eye cameras.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:27 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:30 pm
Posts: 16
Thanks. Since I'm new to this why would more eye cameras make a dfference?

Also is a green screen required?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:07 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2038
Location: Moscow, Russia
More cameras = more POVs. Each camera sees only one side of an actor, and some body parts on that image may be not visible (occluded by this or another actor's body). There is no way to find out the position of an occluded part besides getting images from other POVs (other cameras) where this part is visible. The more cameras sees a specific body part - the more accurately its position is determined.

Greenscreen is not required. The software uses pre-recorded image of empty capture area to distinguish moving parts on the video. However, it is still beneficial when actor colors differ from surroundings. Also it's good to have different colors for torso, arms and legs of an actor. Find more info in our online docs.
http://docs.ipisoft.com/User_Guide_for_Multiple_PS_Eye_Cameras_Configuration#Recording_Video_with_Multiple_PS_Eye_Cameras


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:34 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:30 pm
Posts: 16
Thanks I'm starting off using 2 ps4 eye cameras to try out.

Would I be able to motion capture things like facial movements (lip/mouth movements, expressions) would I need to get upclose for the camera to catch it correctly. I'm guessing I would also need the models pre-rigged as well though correct.

One more question how would I go about doing things like having a person float or fly? Do I just capture the upper movements of the model and then take care of the rest for the bottom half to make it look like they're flying? (Sorry for all the questions trying out new things makes you want to seek out guidance a bit lol)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:42 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2038
Location: Moscow, Russia
PS4 Camera is not supported mainly because of the proprietary connector (not a standard USB 3.0). Use PS3 Eye cameras instead - they are available in many stores at a low price. Required minimum for color cameras is 3, but we recommend 4-6 for reliable tracking of 1 actor and 8-10 for 2 actors.

Our product supports only full-body mocap, facial capture is not provided.

An actor might try to simulate flying/floating while lying on a bench, for instance. A bench should be recorded with background in this case.
Also, I suggest you to look through the video gallery on our website for specific motions and try to connect directly with publishers for advice. "Making of" section there may be especially useful for you. See this one for example.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:05 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2290
Location: Los Angeles
Some 'flying' examples:

I used Mocap Studio a couple of years ago for digital stunt doubles of actors falling through the air. The scenes just before the VFX scenes showed live action actors sliding down a natural 'water slide' inside a cave. The scenes I created for the film showed the actors shooting out the end of the tunnel and landing in an underground lake.

To record the falling action, I sat and balanced myself on a drumming stool, and performed the 'launch and falling' motions. After recording the motions for each character (there were six), I simply attached the rig to a null and animated the trajectory of the fall. It worked perfectly!

I don't have that footage on the VFX reel I posted a couple of weeks ago but the reel does feature other Mocap Studio footage I created for a few other films. But you'll be able to see the above 'falling' footage soon; I am putting together a few 'behind-the-scenes' videos, and one of them will feature the scene described above.

BTW, I use multiple Kinects with multiple PS Move controllers, mostly because it's easier to setup and take down than PS3, and because I have very limited time and space to work in. I used to use PS3 Eye cameras for capture but it was just too much trouble for my personal situation. However, if you have the space and suitable lighting, you'll get better results with PS3 Eye.

Another example of 'falling' mocap: A few years ago, Mocap Studio user 1k0 made a trailer for his film 'Danse Kabyle' which featured a character free-falling. To do that, he just balanced himself on one foot, recorded that motion, and then reorientated the rig in his animation program. The result was very convincing.

Sorry, I don't have the link handy but a search for 1k0 or 'Danse Kabyle' in these forums should lead you to the links.

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Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:30 pm
Posts: 16
Thanks for the help guys it really means alot

So my laptop only has about 2 usb ports. How would I go about using 8 ps3 eye cameras at once? DO i just record them and upload them onto the computer two at a time or something?

Do I need to have some form of gymnastic skills to make 3d models do things like summersaults and backflips or could I just alter and edit the movements post recording?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2290
Location: Los Angeles
Are you using only one laptop? If so, I don't think you can record with 8 cameras. Assuming you have two USB 2 controllers (not talking about USB ports here, that's different, but it's likely that you have two controllers) I think you can have two cameras per controller for a total of 4 cameras.

If you have USB 3 controllers, I think you can have more cameras per controller but I'll leave that to more knowledgeable users to confirm. :)

Anyway, what happens to the data after recording depends on your setup.

If you're recording to only one computer, the data is compiled there by Recorder, and you can send it to another computer for tracking later.

If you're recording to multiple computers, you have two options: 1.) save the data to each computer and compile the data to a single file later (may be better option for slow wifi,) or 2.) have each computer send the data to a master computer immediately after recording and have the master compile the data (better choice if you're on an ethernet network.) After this, the data can be sent to the computer you have Mocap Studio installed (assuming that's a different computer from your Recorder 'master'.)

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Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

Image
Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:30 pm
Posts: 16
oh I see so I would have to buy some of these as well? btw I also have a pc as well that has about 4 usb ports
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