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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:10 am
Posts: 11
Dear iPi,

As we know, Microsoft announced ending the manufacturing of the Kinect device. I'd like to know whether iPi got replacement plan for Kinect. Is there any better device than Kinect in your development plan? Such as zed depth sensor which has depth range 0.5 - 20 m. [https://www.stereolabs.com/zed/specs/]

I do conern this becasue it is hard to pursuade my client on using a stop-sale device as part of their system. Thanks for any feedback on this.

Shawn


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:21 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:44 am
Posts: 166
Yes, this news from the Microsoft is really disappointing. However, alternatives to Kinect sensor exist.
Stereolabs you're pointing out to is not suitable for mocap, as it is designed for different applications.

We consider recently released Intel RealSense D400, its specs look really promising and technology looks similar to Kinect v1. We can also use Orbbec Astra.
In addition, I have to say that it is unlikely that Kinect v2 will become unavailable anytime soon. Kinect v1 is still available on Amazon, despite its production stopped in 2014.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:22 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2269
Location: Los Angeles
Hi Pas,

Is it too soon for further comments on these alternatives? I'm currently satisfied with my Kinect One (v2) setup for the time being. I'm just thinking about the future since Kinect is essentially EOL now.

I'll understand if you can't answer these questions but here are a few that come to mind:

How does the Intel RealSense D400 and Orbbec Astra compare with Kinect? I can see the specs but I'm wondering more about the practical quality of the data. For example, is the depth data/point cloud less noisy than Kinect v1 data, so as to be comparable to Kinect v2? Or is the output from these devices about the same as Kinect v1?

Can multiple units (Realsense or Astra) be plugged into a single computer like with Kinect v1?

If both of the above could be answered positively, it truly would be promising and I could consider switching up at some point.

Take care and keep up the great work guys!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:35 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:44 am
Posts: 166
Both Orbbec and D400 use USB 2.0, so we should be able to use multiple sensors on the same PC, like Kinect v1.
As to quality, we don't yet have sensors at hand to test. I think we can expect quality similar to Kinect v1.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2269
Location: Los Angeles
Okay, thanks for the heads up!

For users considering Kinect v1 or these alternatives in a future iPi Software release, I had pretty good results with multiple Kinect v1 in the past. The Brudders stuff I've shown so far, and the digital stunt double/creature effects I created for The Asylum a few years ago were all recorded with v1 in my living room.

The motion data I'm capturing now with the Kinect v2 is cleaner and I'm very happy with the results, but I have to say meeting the hardware requirements with Kinect v1 was certainly easier and less costly.

Just something to think about if you're on a tight budget.

Anyway, @the iPi crew, I'll look forward to seeing results with any new devices whenever you guys get a chance to post them. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2269
Location: Los Angeles
I'm sure you guys have seen this but I just happened to stumble on the D435 specs here:

https://click.intel.com/intelr-realsens ... -d435.html

...and I found this bit most interesting:

Depth Output Resolution & Frame Rate: Up to 1280x720; Up to 90fps

The future does look promising. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:16 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 838
Location: Florida USA
...

Quote:
I have to say that it is unlikely that Kinect v2 will become unavailable anytime soon. Kinect v1 is still available on Amazon, despite its production stopped in 2014


I would have to agree with this statement from Pas, although you will probably see a bit of gouging on eBay and other sources, as sellers will now play on fears for those that use these sensors for many different scenarios.

If worried, do as stated and get your back-up sensors now, at least one and the adapter, as I see the adapter pricing going through the roof faster than the sensors.

The issue with RealSense components going forward, is that Intel holds the patent and they are reknown for not making things compatible with other manufacturers components, and it states in the specs for the D400 (D435) series that you will need 6th Gen (SkyLake or Broadwell-E) or newer processors for them to work, (nothing stated about AMD processor compatibility), and will only be on a USB 3.0 controller, that is mostly common on most PC's in use now anyway, but connections are quickly moving to USB 3.1+ compatibility for higher transfer rates.

Seems interesting the D435 will be using a Global shutter system, (over the Rolling shutter used now), that is stated to increase the FOV even more. (H,V,Diag degrees).

As far as use of more than one per PC, I suppose that depends on the Intel SDK and how it can be manipulated by the iPi developers, but there is bandwidth limitations to deal with from high end HD sensors, so even if could work on one machine, doesn't mean will work on all machines that are USB 3.0+ compatible, this was even an issue with the Kinect v2 sensors individual machine compatibility.

D400 series are specing a 5m range optimal for tracking purposes, which is what you can get from Kinect v1 or v2 now, but dual Kinects do not extend this range, it just makes for better 360 degree imaging for tracking within that 5m range, and a dual 180 set up actually cutting down on that range a bit to maintain full body height view.

By the time the available supply of Kinect v2 runs out, I really do expect much better 3D sensors available anyway, with much greater range, so iPi will stay on top of their SDK to adapt I am sure, it really just depends on what the individual manufacturers SDK's will allow them to do and adapt to a wide range of machines, that may be more of a task.

I use PS Eyes, so not an issue for me, but even though, I wouldn't panic over this Kinect news, just get back ups before prices go up, if you are.

...


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