A few question for those who are getting good results
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Author:  kyleb2112 [ Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  A few question for those who are getting good results

I'm desperately trying to get this to work, as the alternative is to tell my boss we need a $20,000 mocap suit (as the cheaper suits don't look good enough). I have a high tech level, but so far I can't get decent results after a solid week of research and testing.

1). If you see any red pop up on the recording windows (dropped frames or whatever), is that a total deal killer? Do you stop recording and troubleshoot/upgrade system? Or continue on? I'm seeing a low percentage of dropped frames at 640 resolution. I don't know if upgrading my system would fix all my problems or not. At a lower resolution, I don't get dropped frames, but I still have the same tracking problems, so I've been assuming it's not the main source of my problems.

2). How do I get the Motion Controller tab on iPi Mocap Studio to appear? The wiki instructions possibly suggest you need a separate computer for each PS Move. But all three of my Moves (connected to 2 computers) show up and calibrate in Ipi Recorder. BUT, then there is no Motion Controller tab added to iPi Mocap Studio. I don't know if I'm not recording Move data, or if I need to set an option somewhere to record the Move data, or if the trial version of iPi Mocap Studio doesn't support this feature.

3). How important is spacing of cameras? Are you putting them at exact intervals around the shot area?

4). I've been close to a wall, but not with particularly dark shadows. Do I need to use an open space before this will work?

5.) The calibration shows "Perfect" only when I switch "Marker Spot On Video" to Large. Am I sacrificing accuracy by doing this? Should I get a smaller calibration light?

I'd appreciate any responses. It'd be a real heart-breaker if I can't get this system to work just for overlooking something simple.

Author:  vmaslov [ Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A few question for those who are getting good results


First, you didn't mention which cameras you use. I guess it's PS Eye and below comment is under this assumption.

If you see "red" statistics during recording this is usually a sign of some performance issues which need to be addressed. Acceptable number of frame drops or slightly lower frame rate do not cause red.
Probably you need to connect cameras to other USB ports so that not too many cameras are connected to a single USB controller, or add an additional USB controller to your PC. If your issues are with USB bandwidth, you can also try lower frame rate instead of lower resolution. Also, USB extension cables of poor quality (or passive cables of more than 3m length) may cause frame drops and other issues.

Motion Controllers tab appears automatically for action projects containing data from motion controllers. For this data to be recorded, motion controllers should be selected in device list of iPi Recorder before hitting the Record button.

Cameras shouldn't be distributed evenly. The main point when placing cameras is to provide different points of view on a capture space for the tracking algorithm. Hence we recommend placing several cameras at increased heights (for color). Being close to a wall means you cannot place cameras in a full circle around the capture area thus limiting POVs and making harder to track certain motions. But the main thing for color tracking is even lighting and good contrast between actor clothes and background.

Size of calibration marker only matters for its detection (distinction from other light sources in the scene). Calibration algorithm takes center point of detected marker spot for its calculations. If you see low percentage of marker misdetection then you should be good to go.

You may share you calibration and action videos so that I can give you more specific recommendations.

Author:  bluebox [ Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A few question for those who are getting good results

dont worry guys ,I have got all of the issues what you have mention about ,so I guess the first problem is your space may be too small ,in my experience ,at least need 70 m x m to capture motion and then calibration and tracking the motion in ipi studio mocap ,because if the space too small and the actor can be not suit the background character and can not track the motion ,all the issue is the basic knowledge you need to learn ,some example (bandwide the usb or how to use ps move controlor and if the distance too far from the pc which you link to the ps move controlor then the data will lose ,or you need The tripod
is the best choice to fix the camera postion and you need usb 3.or usb 2 cable to extend to connect to your pc if the camera too far from ,or too high)and so on

Author:  Snapz [ Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A few question for those who are getting good results


Best to just share your calibration and action videos with iPi Support, there are many causes that new users can quite easily overlook, or not be able to determine the cause, when many are easier to see by experienced users, or iPi Support, this is assuming your computer(s) used are compatible for the PS Eyes system use you are performing.

Once you get the PS cameras and PS controllers set correctly and detected properly, as well as correct room lighting and clothing, the system will track very accurately at 90% or better, even during fast motions and extreme motions, but there is always caveats during tracking when using RGB cameras, with any mocap system that may cause interference with the tracking, that just comes with usage experience and can usually be rectified with iPi by simply re-tracking the area, or some basic clean up in iPi Studio, or ultimately in post.

Be aware that PS Eye cams do not like really bright light and definitely not where it shines into their lenses, better to have more less wattage lighting around the area, this will also lessen the shadows on the floor. (Really bright room lighting can and most likely will cause frame drops randomly).

Good saturated clothing colors and tighter fitting is very important too, as well closely matching the iPi Actor dimensions to the video performer before tracking, using the Overall Body Mass set lower first, then individually adjusting the rest of the sliders will help, as well as the correct lengths of the Actor skeleton.
(See the Pose Tab to set hip height accordingly, it usually comes in to high for most performers, which means you need to shorten the legs length and usually the arms length after to better match the performer).

If your Actor height isn't within approx 1-2 cm of the performers actual height, when you refit the Actor from the center point floor mark, something is off, as this should occur without much issue when done properly.

Depending on the amount of cameras you are using, though 6 should be a minimum for better results, the positioning can be just about anywhere above 3 ft, can be lower in some circumstances, but to learn they should be set higher than 3 to 4 ft off the floor and the correct measurement used for camera 1 when calibration asks for it, as calibration is the most important part of RGB tracking quality, then lighting, then clothing, then background colors, as iPi does a pretty good job of removing background inconsistencies.

You are on the right track by choosing PS Eyes, though a bit slower in tracking depending on your graphics card, but much more accurate, with less loss of tracking and lessened post clean up, that is once you get things working properly, and the system does work properly with 6 cams, or more, with proper computer running the system, but would be best to let iPi see your videos and give some better recommendations.

One note many don't understand, the Scene light is there for a reason, and should be placed in the Studio scene to match the brightest light source, so setting your lights should conform to give a directional lighting appearance on the performer, this doesn't mean a one sided lighting source, it means higher wattage lighting on some lamps and this works better if set from the side of the front facing actor, this helps split the shadows on the iPi Actors skin and can aid in tracking quality, but the main thing is that the scene light should be placed and used, just not forgotten about, it will make subtle, noticeably better differences in your tracking quality.


Author:  kyleb2112 [ Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A few question for those who are getting good results

Great info guys. Sounds like my first priority is to get additional USB controllers, and might as well upgrade to 6 PS3 Eyes since they're so cheap.
Initially I did move my entire setup to a much bigger room, but got no better results, so moved back to my office, which is likely too small. I will go back to the big room and try it with new USB controllers and no red statistic pop ups. There are so many variables I wasn't sure where to trouble shoot, so I'll fix these obvious problems first. Thanks.

Author:  vmaslov [ Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A few question for those who are getting good results

When getting an USB card pay attention to USB chip it is based on not to get into other issues. NEC/Renesas USB 3.0 chips have good compatibility with most cameras including PS Eye.

Author:  Snapz [ Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A few question for those who are getting good results


Yes, PS Eyes require a bit more room size, though if you have to use a more rectangle shaped room, use the long side as the front/rear camera side, if possible, even if not using a rear camera, it is better to face the front on the longest side of the room.

Very large area aren't really necessary, PS Eyes can only see well within 20 x 20 ft., outside of that it would require special camera placement, or more cameras than 6 to work effectively, but really it is better to keep your maximum floor capture volume from 12 x 12 ft. to 15 x 15 ft. where all the cameras can view the entire performer with arms extended upward while standing in the exact center floor mark of the room, wall to wall measurement.

Best to always use a dead center room floor mark (X), This is the ONLY spot that should be used to set the scale of the iPi Actor to the performer, after the scale is set correctly, it is then possible to start your tracking at any point in the space available, it isn't required to refit your Actor from the T Pose @ center, nor end in a T pose, but that is personal choice, as iPi can export a 1st frame T pose for characterization in any 3D editing package.

PS Eyes are a little more tricky to set up and use, especially if it is required to break the set up down after each session, so if possible try to set them up in a more stable environment where the system can remain untouched after set up.

I have went into some very specific detail explaining aspects of the system that always worked well for me, you are free to check them out in the forum posts.

It's all trial and error based on your preferences, and you will work through issues until you get a better idea of how and why things have to be as suggested for best results, but if you stick with things, it should start to fall in place rather quickly, the camera set up is fairly forgiving, but the room size, calibration, lighting and clothing fit isn't so forgiving, so heed any suggestions pertaining to those aspects.

Good Luck!


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