Change font size
It is currently Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:07 am


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 2 of 3   [ 21 posts ]
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:16 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2142
Location: Moscow, Russia
OK. I've studied this part of code thoroughly and admit that above I was wrong a bit. Here are the conditions under which imported animation is considered as "native" and applied directly to built-in model:
  • Skeleton structure is identical to our model excluding joint names. That is, number of joints and their connections.
  • Bone proportions match default proportions of the built-in model.
Given that, a non-retargeted animation previously exported from Mocap Studio will be open "normally" (without side-by-side skeleton) if only actor's height was adjusted, and specific proportions have not been touched.

We'll fix this eventually to work with adjusted proportions as well.
However, if you plan to use the Open Animation function for animation editing, I do not think it's the right way. It would be better if some basic editing features were included in work with projects. I welcome you to share your thoughts about this (once more).

As for retargeting of arbitrary animations, Mocap Studio has not ever been minded by us as such tool. If we find worthy to advance into this area, it will probably be a separate product.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:06 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

I guess what you are getting at is that PS Eye recordings where the actor scaling doesn't basically self adjust when opened, makes this ability unusable?

I haven't tested this on my own with the Kinect 360 to see if what you stated about changed proportions affects this functionality, but what I gather is only Kinect users have this ability as of now in other words, because there is no way to track properly with PS Eyes recordings without adjusting many of the actor proportions correctly first and I really don't see where default proportion will track as well with Kinects either, but I am not a dedicated user of them.

What if after PS Eye tracking with adjusted proportions, they are reset to default before exporting? I will check and find out and post the findings.

Quote:
However, if you plan to use the Open Animation function for animation editing, I do not think it's the right way. It would be better if some basic editing features were included in work with projects.

As far as the so called "pre-offset" shown in the previous video, that is very handy for slight corrections before export, this doesn't work the same in the original program project editing as it is shown in that video, where the underlying bone trajectories remain correct after "offsetting", but again, I can't try it myself to find out.

I understand this isn't the primary conception from iPi, but these are handy features that you can see work for one setup, but not the other, I think you could agree with that, and if it could be configured to work consistent with each camera choice it would be nice, but as far as being a separate purchased functionality, you can just leave it out then, because I will never use a Kinect One, or any other depth sensor and will just work with it as I have been, it's just a shame.

I you have any questions, please let me know directly.

Thanks for checking it and your reply.

Quote:
What if after PS Eye tracking with adjusted proportions, they are reset to default before exporting? I will check and find out and post the findings.

No, it still doesn't reopen on the default iPi skeleton after resetting proportions to default.



...


Attachments:
iPi Reopen Animation Fault.JPG
iPi Reopen Animation Fault.JPG [ 52.01 KiB | Viewed 5050 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:56 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2142
Location: Moscow, Russia
Snapz wrote:
No, it still doesn't reopen on the default iPi skeleton after resetting proportions to default.

How did you reset the proportions? I guess you did it manually by moving sliders near to default positions, as there is no Reset button for that. However, the behavior I've described requires match with high precision, so manual editing usually don't fit.

If you save the default actor appearance (for example, after Mocap Studio has just started and no project is loaded), and then load it into an existing project, and then export animation - this animation should be "compatible" with Open Animation.

Anyway, take all the above as pure experiment for interest. There is no sence in making those manipulations just to be able to open animation in Mocap Studio. Because there are no features in Animation mode that are not available in Tracking mode. What Joe shows in that video is a simple editing capability - apply a fixed relative rotation of a single bone to all frames in ROI. This is not a special "intelligent" pre-offset feature of any kind. Just that simple - duplicate a bone's rotation to selected frames. It works exactly the same way with projects.

All joints Joe touches in the video (clavicles and neck) are mostly not affected by the tracking, so their rotation is almost static throughout an animation. Thus, setting fixed rotation for such joint does not lead to a significant loss of an animation, but indeed has the effect of "offsetting" rotations of its child joints (arm or head). If you make the same operation (Ctrl+B, Ctrl+Shift+V) for any "active" joint like shoulder - you'll see there is no magic pre-offset, the shoulder will remain fixed as though it's plastered.

So, there is no feature we're hiding from users for some purpose. That's just an inventive way of using existing editing features. Although, I am not sure it's that useful as Joe states.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:07 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Ok, thanks I will try that for resetting the proportions.

...

That did work, don't know why I didn't think of it myself, but now I have that default actor file saved.

After testing the "pre-offset" as shown in the videos, that doesn't work as described, you are correct, it was more stating the after adjusted trajectory to remain in tact, like a layer adjustment, but it doesn't, would have been nice if it would have, why I wanted to test it, just because it would have "pre-helped" when only bones are exported as BVH to another editor.

I do that now by merging in an FBX character as a reference model, since it's just as fast as retargeting to characters in Webanimate for the little bit of offsets I need usually.

My animations clavicles move way too much, much more than Kinects do I guess, so correct, it is of no use for me, or anyone really IMO.

In further view, he was just demonstrating how if you bought his animations, how you could re-open them in iPi Studio and then re-export to different formats, and other pre-rigged characters.

Thanks for clarifying this and explaining how I could test it myself.

Thanks for the replies.

...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:06 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 35
Heres what else is awesome for me.. I can also use this feature to build a hand library. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwF07gePyKY and Advanced Mocap Retargeting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI2yudwNHZs

And heres the famous pillow and toe test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksGtth1lARM

As far as Usefulness, I guess that depends on who you are, A programmer or developer might not enjoy the benefits of said techniques as much as an lets say artist or non coder,

I can say that the above techniques are of my own creativeness, results may vary from user to user.

One more track in iPi for offsets would be an awesome and welcome addition to the current software.

That way I would not have to rely on external apps for these little adjustments.

P.S. Y havent you ever tried a kinect snapz? is it because of the feet?


Attachments:
File comment: This is a free bvh for testing in ipiV3
Andrews_Sisters_dance.zip [354.29 KiB]
Downloaded 131 times
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:48 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

I have tried Kinects 360 and XBox One, single and dual sensor setup.

Although, I haven't tried the new sensor with the recent updates from iPi, so I can't comment, if it helped then Kudos to the iPi team.

I have a 6 cam PS Eyes setup and I don't really need both set up, when I tested the XBox One sensor it did blow away the 360, but still has feet issues, no real accurate head tracking without a Move strapped to the head, very flex spine setting works a bit different, which I use a lot, so those are the basic reasons I prefer the PS Eyes.

Kinects are much easier to setup and use for the general user, so I guess just boils down to preference, I have the process for the Eyes working very well, so sticking with that setup.

The feet have gotten better tracked on Kinect One, so those that use them are more satisfied I am sure, and I see you get pretty good results, so good job.

I just misunderstood what you were demonstrating in those videos, but I am cleared up now, I thought you were demonstrating an offsetting process like adjustment layering works in other editors, which would be nice if iPi could implement something like that, but what you show has been available with apply to ROI area, so no real use for me, I use the frame advance pinning function when I do need corrections sometimes and that works ok, just a bit more tedious.

...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2358
Location: Los Angeles
The feet problems I tend to encounter comes from the fact that iPi rig's the thighs are unable to roll at the hips, so the feet may sometimes turn unnaturally when the torso twists. Well, at least in the Kinect rig; I haven't used PS3 tracking for a few years, although I recall seeing the same issues way back when.

I was told that the thigh roll in the rig was intentionally fixed to prevent different problems with the legs that would otherwise occur. I accepted that explanation, and it hasn't been too big of a deal for me since I can pin the rotation of the feet in my animation/editing program.

Anyway, in the latest software, it still does that. (for Kinect I mean; I can't vouch for PS3 tracking these days.)

_________________
Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

Image
Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:46 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 35
No real use for you? Really Snapz? Is that how it is?

After all you went through here to get it working?

Your just slam all my work here and say no real use?

I am sorry it is of no use to you, But what about the other millions of animators out there?

I see how you are, you try to change the subject,

And no, It wasnt available as before, and no its not ROI either..

And advanced pinning is not even a listed feature... where did you learn the technique from?

Sorry your wrong.

Snapz wrote:
...

The feet have gotten better tracked on Kinect One, so those that use them are more satisfied I am sure, and I see you get pretty good results, so good job.

I just misunderstood what you were demonstrating in those videos, but I am cleared up now, I thought you were demonstrating an offsetting process like adjustment layering works in other editors, which would be nice if iPi could implement something like that, but what you show has been available with apply to ROI area, so no real use for me, I use the frame advance pinning function when I do need corrections sometimes and that works ok, just a bit more tedious.

...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:34 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Sorry, I don't "slam" anyone's work, I have complimented you many times here, please don't group me into your conspiracy rantings.

I was trying to get the Open Animation feature to work on the default iPi Actor really, but tested out the described "Global pre-offset" thinking it was something different I wasn't aware of, but it wasn't, I was just clarifying that in my post.

If you would have read what Maslov stated just above my post, the same thing is stated, this ROI bone locking has been available since v2 of the program, and probably even in v1, but I never worked with v1.

I wasn't even referring to your video process when I said, "of no use to anyone really", I was referring to the iPi feature itself for (ctrl+B ... ctrl+shift+V), but if it is useful for you, or any others, feel free to use it, but it is of no use to me personally.

As far as the frame advance corrections, I discovered this when I was having Move controller issues a while back, this worked ok then, but now I just do needed offsets in external editors, and I am sure I probably even do that differently than you, to each their own.

I admire creators who help other users, so keep doing what you do, but again, I wasn't slamming anything you have done.

...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:09 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 35
Its Ok, I get it, Everyone wants to get a rise out of The "MrBones" character from time to time.

But to say its not useful is to say the same thing the ipi dev said, I doubt its as useful as Joe claims...

However, In the context or configuration I show, does not include any ROI (region of interest), so Im confused by your negative banter about it......

Which leads me to wonder if its been there the whole time, why hasnt iPi mentioned it? And now why do you say it was there the whole time, yet were talking about it like its something new?

And then you go on to say, that cntrl B is of no use to you? hmm, I thought you said you knew of this for years..Then why did you try so hard to follow my instructions to make it work? Was that rhetorical that if it works for me it would be useful, but since it doesnt work for me, its not useful..? Again sorry more confusion.

Frame advanced Pinning techniques? Sounds like news to me...

As far as conspiracy ranting? I wont even go there.

but heres a movie explaining Usefulness. https://youtu.be/ZM8d3zB08fw


Last edited by makeamo on Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 2 of 3   [ 21 posts ]
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net