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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 6
Well i've been working on an indie fighting game and I want to create a short cinematic for the game. i would love to be able to showcase two character in a fighting scene. I have modeled two high poly models, and test them with sample data.

I've made some improvements to them and i would like to capture my own fight sequence between the two. Any advice anyone could give me on camera set-up would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking i will need the 16 camera setup, or could I get away with the two xbox kinect sensors.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:20 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

I take it you are using the Pro Edition of iPi Studio? You can use the Basic and record both performers at once, then track individually each performer for export and put them together later in another editor.

16 cameras would be overkill for that and only 2 actors to me, whatever you think though, or you could use either dual or more Kinects V1 would be easier, or 8 or so PS Eyes, but they need to be set up and positioned pretty well to get higher quality captures, and with 8 Eyes, you would need additional USB controllers, or other computers as slaves, you can only use 2 Eyes per controller, more repeater cables and more room to set up, but the capturing is much better.

PS eyes capture faster motions better at a higher 60 fps framerate, (depending on country used), but you need a good video card for processing or it will be very slow.

The Kinects would be easier for you, but you will have more clean up and a slower framerate.

Depends on how technical and extreme the movements, the Kinects will encounter more occlusion and loss of tracking easier, you will have less space to act in and other drawbacks, but there is no lighting requirements, (except limiting sunlight through windows), or specific clothing colors needed.

PS Eyes require more room for set up, proper lighting and clothing, (per actor), better positioning of cameras and so on, it's not just an easy set up and go process like the Kinect V1.

Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:25 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 6
I'm hoping to treat this as an investment. I"m a freelance 3D modeler and user interface designer I'm working on a 3d fighting game for beta release Christmas.

so far we've been hand animating everything and it is time consuming and expensive. I'm hoping an ipisoft setup will save me time and money. I've tested data a friend recorded using the kinect and it worked. Now i just need to capture a ninja and make him perform for me.


from your response I gather that i can use the 8 camera setup, with 2 capture cards in the same pc.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:07 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
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8-Cameras are only PS3 Eyes and the Pro Version, Max Kinect V1 per computer is 3 I believe with the Pro Studio version, Max 2 Kinect 360's with the Basic version, Max 6-PS Eyes with Basic version. Someone else may clarify number of Kinect V1's per computer, but only one Kinect V2 per computer.

2 capture cards meaning 2 additional USB 3.0 PSIe controllers? You would need 4 USB 3.0 controllers to run 8 cameras on one PC, or I think I saw a multi-channel USB controller here: using multi-chip USB 3.0 cards for connecting the cameras similar to this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJZEA2S

As long as your Motherboard has 2 PSIe slots, if using 2 USB cards, a good graphics card, and you have enough repeater cabling to put the cameras where they need to be, along with other hardware for stable positioning of the cameras, can be hand-made or bought tripods, just stable.

Minimum room size would be 12 ft x 20 ft for max capture volume of approx. 12 ft x 12 ft, depending on how you place your cameras, but a smaller area wont work well with PS eyes for what you would want to do in my opinion.

If you are new to iPi or camera capture, there will be a learning curve, but nothing you can't work through fairly quickly, going through other posts in the forum.

As I stated, PS Eyes aren't a set up and go type rig, it may take time to get them set up to perform best, but you will get better tracking, than the Kinect V1, faster motion tracking and better feet tracking. you may still want (2) Move controllers for the hand tracking and if running Win 7 or 8.1, you will need the appropriate Bluetooth adapter, specified elsewhere in posts or in the Wiki, but Moves aren't necessary if you want to add the wrist movements later in another 3D editor.

I have a permanent setup with fixed camera positioning, so I don't have many issues and having to set up and tear down, but each users use is different.

iPi may be able to give you some more recommendations, but most are already listed somewhere in the Wiki users guide or in these forums.

Good Luck, I hope it turns out well for you and YES, it will save immense time over manual key frame animating, even though there will be some clean up still needed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:39 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2150
Location: Moscow, Russia
Snapz wrote:
8-Cameras are only PS3 Eyes and the Pro Version, Max Kinect V1 per computer is 3 I believe with the Pro Studio version, Max 2 Kinect 360's with the Basic version, Max 6-PS Eyes with Basic version. Someone else may clarify number of Kinect V1's per computer, but only one Kinect V2 per computer.

Snapz wrote:
You would need 4 USB 3.0 controllers to run 8 cameras on one PC

Clarifying...

Regarding hardware.
You can connect any number of Kinect v1 devices to a single PC as soon as it can handle all the data. Each Kinect v1 device requires dedicated USB 2.0 controller (3.0 suits as well).
Each Kinect v2 requires a dedicated PC with USB 3.0 controller and Win 8.0+.
Single USB 2.0 controller can handle 2 PS Eye cameras at 60 fps. USB 3.0 can handle the same. So for 8 cameras you may need 1-2 additional USB controllers depending on how many USB controllers are already on m/b (total of USB 2.0 and 3.0).
When choosing additional USB controllers, pay attention to chipsets they are based on. There are known compatibility issues with some chipsets summarized on this page:
http://docs.ipisoft.com/Cameras_and_Accessories#Known_compatibility_issues

Regarding edition limitations.
Basic supports videos recorded with up to 2 depth sensors (Kinect v1 or v2) and up to 6 color cameras (PS Eye). Pro up to 4 Kinects and up to 16 PS Eyes.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:12 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
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Ok good, thx for the clarification Maslov, I wasn't sure for the Pro Version, and I don't know what version he is going to attempt to use for this project.

I just know what I can use max on Basic and the differences between the 2 products for tracking.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 6
sorry I have the trial running. A friend of mine in another state has the pro version and he sent me test data that worked. so I'm hoping to go to the pro version. After careful consideration I'm going to set up a 6-8 camera setup in the garage. So that way i wan have to constantly move it.

I wish i could use a basic laptop for capturing but I know a dedicated PC with the good graphics card is best. I'm going to have everything set-up withing two weeks. just thinking ti might be easier to use two kinects.

majority of the motions will be me, or an actor performing solo actions such as idle, walk cycle, high punch, high kick, etc.. I have to also capture the moves sets for the game.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Yes, 2 to 4 Kinects V1 would be easier set up, only way to find out if will meet your needs is to set it up and test it, they do work ok for basic movements capturing.

I personally just prefer less clean up after the tracking, so I chose the Eyes, they are more accurate during the tracking process, no matter what actions are performed (my opinion).

Kinects V2 will require one computer per Kinect for recording, so sounds like that may not be optimal for you.

I have one Kinect V2 set up now for testing and it is a lot better than the V1, I may get another and see how 2 work later on, but with the one for basic head-on limited action, it is working pretty well and can track fuller rotations up to about 80 degrees from head-on each way, as long as I keep just a piece of the shoulder and hand visible at all times, it seems to handle it ok, where the V1 had issues with this at less rotation. 360 degree rotations with 1 cam was always possible with V1, it can be done, but you can't linger at a 90 degree angle from camera and will have to manually fill in some of the lost frames and make some minor arm,shoulder, feet and leg corrections on the back side.

Good Luck!

...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 6
can i ask a personal question. how much have each of you invested in having your own set-up.

I'm currently Finishing a project and limited on funds. Id like to get a setup together, I'm think either 6-8 cameras to start. I need to capture martial artist performing action sequences, so accuracy is key.

I'm just wondering in ballpark how much equipment am I needing to purchase to get everything up and running. I'm not asking for personals just ball park.

200
300
500
give or take, I've been looking through amazon and the price for camera has gone down which is great.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

If you are starting from point zero... Start with needing a fairly good machine to handle it well, if you don't have one, things will suffer with 2D camera use.

Cost of the iPi program, whichever you choose and the plan cost - 6 max you can go Basic ... 8 and up have to go Pro, someone else would have to explain the benefits of Pro, other than the amount of cameras that can be used.

6 - PS3 Eyes .. Cheap on Amazon or eBay now. $5 or so each. (best to get at least 1 back-up also).

6 min. - 33 ft. min. USB 2.0 or 3.0 repeater cables, (will need 3.0 if ever going to try the Kinect V2 cams), or more depending on how far you need to go from your computer. Approx. $15 and up on Amazon.

At least 3 dual port USB 2.0 controllers, (Kinect V2 needs a USB 3.0 controller), depending on how many your machine has now. $20 each Renesas NEC chipset on Amazon.

Correct clothing cost, if you don't have tighter fitting correct items.. ???

Extra lighting sources, if needed ... ???

HDD or SSD for storage, or enough room on existing. ???

Camera mounting apparatus... tripods or stable permanent mountings... ???

Video Card of a good quality that handles Direct x11 ... $150 and up ... if you don't have correct one now.

If wanted, one set (2) move controllers... Various prices on Amazon or eBay ... another set for second actor would be needed for 2 actors.

That would be your base costs, plus shipping if needed for items stated for USA.

You would just have to calculate things for your area and come up with a base cost, but I am pretty sure over $500 will be needed, even if you have some of the above already.

...


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