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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:54 am
Posts: 15
Greenlaw wrote:
Just following up: Sorry, I haven't had a chance to check your configuration yet. Looking at the sketch, I think the room might be too small for dual Kinect, especially with large pieces of furniture present. vmaslov is correct: the floor has be be visible for the devices to properly detect it so you need to minimize occlusion from furniture. Depending on the height of the desk, I think it might partially block the view of both Kinect sensors. When I'm shooting with dual Kinect in our living room, I have to shove one sofa about a foot away to prevent this problem, and the room is a bit bigger. You also need to be able to perform without getting too close to walls or furniture--getting too close to large objects can create data confusion. (Comments based on first drawing. Haven't seen the others sketches yet.)

I'll be shooting motions tonight so I'll see if I can simulate your proposed configs and see what it looks like 'on screen'.


Would it not be possible to circumvent the floor issue by simply attaching the camera just underneath the celling and lower their vertical angle?
It seems to work for this man right here (Camera 3 in video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEe-A1TJatU

Did some more lurking and I found this:
http://wiki.ipisoft.com/Cameras_and_accessories

Quote:
It is recommended to place at least one of the cameras reasonably high (2 or 3 meters high)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2229
Location: Los Angeles
You generally don't want to position a Kinect sensor too much higher than a meter off the floor. (The wiki suggests 0.5 to 1.1m.)

If it's higher, it might not detect the floor properly, and if it's positioned lower than the furniture, the furniture may occlude it (it depends on the furniture of course.)

I think positioning a Kinect sensor from below the ceiling is probably out of the question although, admittedly, I've never tried it myself.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:54 am
Posts: 15
Greenlaw wrote:
You generally don't want to position a Kinect sensor too much higher than a meter off the floor. (The wiki suggests 0.5 to 1.1m.)

If it's higher, it might not detect the floor properly, and if it's positioned lower than the furniture, the furniture may occlude it (it depends on the furniture of course.)

I think positioning a Kinect sensor from below the ceiling is probably out of the question although, admittedly, I've never tried it myself.


The video I posted clearly shows camera 3 being set much higher than 1 meter. Judging by the angle it atleast 2 meters.
Also the link to the accesories I posted does have a quote about putting one of sensor reasonably high.

I'm pretty sure that leads to something.


If you could please test this composition where the camera on left is 1m above ground (that would be just above my sofa)
and the second one would be about 180cm above ground (just above my desk)

http://imgur.com/a/FqrFS


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2229
Location: Los Angeles
Yes but now you're talking about the PS3 Eye Camera, which is a completely different device. Being an RGB-video only device, there is more flexibilty in where you can place them, and iPi Mocap Studio uses a different method for ground detection for it.

Kinect sensors expect the ground to be at a certain distance and orientation for proper ground detection.

In your particular situation, PS3 Eye might be less suitable because it requires even more space than the Kinect sensors. Sorry.

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Last edited by Greenlaw on Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
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Location: Los Angeles
That said, it might be worth a shot. It really depends on the room lighting.

The garage where I used record with PS3 Eye cameras was not very big but I had a very clear environment and multiple soft boxes to even out the shadows. (Lighting and shadows are generally not a concern with Kinect.) If you can clear the environment and provide more even lighting (i.e., non-directional or with no 'hard' shadows,) maybe it could work.

I don't think you'll have much room to move around though...PS3 Eye requires quite a bit more space.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:54 am
Posts: 15
Greenlaw wrote:
That said, it might be worth a shot. It really depends on the room lighting.

The garage where I used record with PS3 Eye cameras was not very big but I had a very clear environment and multiple soft boxes to even out the shadows. (Lighting and shadows are generally not a concern with Kinect.) If you can clear the environment and provide more even lighting (i.e., non-directional or with no 'hard' shadows,) maybe it could work.

I don't think you'll have much room to move around though...PS3 Eye requires quite a bit more space.


Ah my bad then. I though the accesory section reffered to all devices.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:54 am
Posts: 15
Anyway I just made another rough simulation in Daz on how new 2 kinect v1 setup would look:
http://imgur.com/a/FGrQa Camera 1
http://imgur.com/a/DHp0r Camera 2

And here's how it would look as 1 kinect v2:
http://imgur.com/a/icRLH

once again it seems like Kinect v2 is the only option that allows me to have basic mocap functionality.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:42 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 1934
Location: Moscow, Russia
In dual sensor config, it looks like you cannot do a single step not to get out of camera #1 view.
Single sensor config looks more promising.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:58 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2229
Location: Los Angeles
That's kinda what I was thinking. I don't think you're going to be able to move around enough for a second sensor to make much difference in this space.

That said, a single sensor can be suitable if you're mostly standing in place. BTW, it is certainly possible to record turnarounds using a single Kinect One (v2) sensor using with iPi's unique post-tracking system. You may still get occlusion errors but the tracker helps you interpolate what the sensor can't see. You can also compensate by performing angled slightly away from the side you will turn into, giving yourself a wider visible range to the sensor.

The earliest Kinect XBox 360 (v1) tests I did for 'Happy Box' were captured this way, including a version of the 'chainsaw dance'. The 'dance' that we wound up using was recorded later when dual Kinect (v1) support came online, but a few other shots from the original single Kinect (v1) recordings are still in the film.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:54 am
Posts: 15
I decided to go with 2 v1 kinects since I figured out how to trim my room to hav 2x2m capture radius.

Here's how the setup will look like:
http://imgur.com/a/gD9RS

Now the DAZ Simulation:
http://imgur.com/a/98xLz

This is how it will likely look if I place the cameras on 170cm heigh angled down by 17 degree:
http://imgur.com/a/yMn69
http://imgur.com/a/1jC1O

This is how it will likely look if I place the cameras on 100cm heigh unangled:
http://imgur.com/a/nzqzs
http://imgur.com/a/Dgi3N

I feel like the 170cm angled setup is better.

Any second opinions on that?


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