My Shopping List
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Author:  Weitenstein [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  My Shopping List

Hi everyone,

since i hand animated my last Movie and never want to do this again, i want to buy a small mocap homestudio. I was wondering if you could take a look and give me feedback.
(The clamps will be used to fix my ps eye sockets)

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00OPX ... 9F56C3A3O6

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00NH1 ... KAKR8XB7XF

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00KMP ... M07HE1FXSB

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00SFJ ... PPETPO0ZL3

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000W3 ... TGVX7YTVOT

File comment: Shoppinglist
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Author:  vmaslov [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My Shopping List

As I can see, first two positions are regular (passive) extension cables. I recommend to avoid using passive extension cables, at least longer than 2-3 meters, as this may lead to unstable work of cameras.
If you plan to connect all 6 cameras to a single PC then usually it's:
  • 2 cameras without extensions
  • 2 cameras with short extensions (2-3 m, may be passive)
  • 2 cameras with long extensions (10+m. active)
Thus throw away position 1 and take 1 more active 10m cable instead.

BTW, what PC do you plan to use for recording? Is it a desktop or laptop? Be aware that laptops usually can handle up to 4 PS Eyes only due to USB limitations. Desktops allow to install additional USB controllers if needed.

Author:  Snapz [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My Shopping List


Also... it is optional, but for best overall results, at least 2 PS Move controllers should be used in hands while recording.

(Requires the purchase of a compatible USB dongle also, and for better data you should get 1 extra longer USB repeater cable to get dongle closer to the capture volume, direct dongle plugging into machine port may cause accuracy issues)

Tracking alone doesn't capture wrist rotations and this makes a great difference in the naturalness of the final tracking results, especially after applying the Moves data first, then running the refine process.

Of course this would depend on if you have enough available USB controllers and ports! Newer laptops may not be able to handle this due to port and controller limits, as Maslov stated, or you may have to go to using 2 laptops and distributed recording feature to achieve needed capabilities.

Length of USB repeater cables really depends on where computer will be set, if you have the funds, it is better to just buy all 10m repeaters and roll up the excess not needed, always better to have more than not enough length in my opinion, especially if wanting to run around floor along walls or ceilings to keep them out of the way.

You would want to check your graphics card on the processing machine also, a higher end card would be recommended for PS Eye processing.

Good place for question to iPi... Is there a way to use a powered USB hub, or any hub that will extend the port capacity on laptops for PS Eyes?

I searched the forum and saw this:

Technically, one USB hub per 2 cameras should work.
However, we had not ever tested this. Always using a separate extension cable for each camera that needs it. Only used hubs on the PC side.
Potential problems may arise due to quality of an extension cable, which may not be sufficient for throughput generated by 2 cameras.

I am guessing this still stands, but just asking if recommendation still stands. I did try using a cheap 4 port unpowered hub, iPi Recorder would recognize the 2 cameras plugged into it, but show nothing just a black view port when clicked record video button.


Author:  Weitenstein [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My Shopping List

First of all thanks for the quick reply.

Ok so I guess I will switch to actice usb extenders. I red somewhere that the usb cables on the ps eye are very short, that is way I wanted to buy six.
I will use a desktop pc (ssd and great gpu) but I am actualy not sure about the amount of usb controllers on my motherboard. Maybe I need to buy pci usb controllers but they are fairly cheap anyway. I rather have everything attached to one machine.

After your post I looked up the adventages of the ps move controller and you got me convinced, but there was one test setup with 3 (1 for the head and 1 for each hand).
They seem to be unwieldy for performing. Is there any smaller alternative to them?

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Author:  Snapz [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My Shopping List


Well, I am not sure what all those controllers mean, but most likely you have 2 USB controllers on the machine that will be compatible, so maybe additional 2 port would be necessary, I am not sure until you try it, but has to be a compatible chip on it, I use a 2 port Renesas, runs about $25 USD and works fine.

I agree, best to have all on one machine and good to know you already have a higher end machine, it will help.

As for Moves, 2 is minimum, head one with PS Eyes is up to you, but the head tracking on with PS Eyes works pretty good, and if goes off is easy to fix later in post, or right inside iPi Studio if you want first, my performers heads have been tracking really well without the head Move, so I just don't worry with it, I can't say you will experience the same results though.

The Moves are a bit bulky, but can be strapped or taped to top of the hand also, using a small foam riser to eliminate the bone discomfort and better articulation of the wrists, but really you will get much better results using them.

I did make a much smaller Move Glove, shown in the General Index under Move Glove, it works well for me if you wanted to do something similar.

Length of cables up to 10m work fine for all, some may prefer 2-5m together to get the extra repeater in there, but I didn't see the need up to 10m.

All my cams are permanently fixed and wires are all run cleanly around the room, but with tripods that's a bit more modular, especially if needs to be broken down after use, just keep cables out of performance area, just a small snag from someone moving on one can ruin your calibration and you may never know until later, why it is best to do a calibration before and after session, not after each performance, just after each full completed session, that is unless someone really messes up and totally knocks a tripod out of wack.

Also, you will need sufficient room to deploy a PS Eye set up and get a reasonable capture volume, or you will be very limited to motions able to be captured.


Author:  Weitenstein [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Shopping List

You are right I need to just give it a try and buy missing stuff later on.
Your glove looks like a realy good idea. I think i will use my 3D-printer and create a mini case

A last question: Did you experienced any trouble using usb 3.0?

Author:  Snapz [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Shopping List


No, not with 3.0, but cameras were not even recognized as connected through 3.1, I just re-checked it, I am running an Asus x99-A II Mobo and has its own USB 3.1 controller, but doesn't seem to work with PS Eyes for me, I don't really need the one 3.1 Type-A port it has for a camera, so I never worried with testing Type-C port and adapter cable, or even researching why.

Also on my mobo, the USB 2.0 and 3.0 share a controller now, not like my old mobo, so even though I have 4 rear panel 2.0 and 3.0 ports, I can only use 2 of each for cams, or I will get black screened on the feed, I have 2 additional 3.0 front ports that work fine with the rear port 3.0 when cams plugged in, I have no idea why the difference, except that those 2 come directly off the mobo header, oddly works that way from same USB 3.0 controller, I still just use the add on card though and life is good, I run Basic version, so 6 is limit on cams anyway.

Good idea if you can make a small plastic case for the Move board, I didn't have that option, although there is really nothing on the board that really would get affected by anything but sweat maybe, but I think I protected it against that and kept it as low profile as I could as one unit, without running wires longer to mount the battery on a forearm strap, I just thought later I would have wire issues, and battery on top is mostly centered and not even noticed for much weight, especially since I stabilized it from shakiness with the wrapping cloth tape across the palm and around each end and the velcro strap around the wrist to stop glove slide.

I would like to see what you come up with as a casing :)

It is much better for use from performers not used to holding a Move, they kind of acted different with the bulkiness in their palm, even though I used cloth tape and a velcro connection on the palm to stabilize them solidly, but now I see they feel more comfortable and wrists look more natural, they don't even realize when into the performance the Move is even attached really, and frees up the fingers for many things much better.


Author:  Weitenstein [ Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Shopping List

Very much appreciate the help.
The first package arrived (1 ps eye and 2 motion controller). I discovered very low price second hand cameras on ebay (about 4€ for each). So it will take a bit until I get everything together.

I will post an update on my setup (custom build tripods and casing) when the full system arrives.

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