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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:08 am 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 9:48 pm
Posts: 23
microsoft will release Kinect 4.0 good news


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:09 am 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 9:48 pm
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https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/introduc ... lex-kipman
https://youtu.be/qAmgfl_WC78
https://youtu.be/B_BXmoTy61o
https://developer.microsoft.com/perception


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2271
Location: Los Angeles
It's interesting news anyway. It sounds more like MS has developed a new generation of Kinect-based hardware/software for third-party developers to license, but not necessarily a new consumer product they will manufacture themselves like their previous Kinect devices. Curious to see what solutions come from this and how it might apply to iPi Mocap Studio. In any case, a new 'Kinect' product seems far down the road at this stage.

For now, I'm more interested in seeing how well the upcoming iPi Mocap Studio 4.0 makes use of currently available cameras and sensors, like action cameras and the ASUS Xtion 2 sensor and the new Intel-based sensors, and how they compare with the current standards, PS3 Eye and Kinect 2.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:39 pm 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 9:48 pm
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I guess kinects will be realtime but the ps3 camera or sport camera will not be realtime ,the hardware limited inculde computer and camera


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2271
Location: Los Angeles
Yeah, I'm very curious about the realtime streaming quality described for iPi Mocap Studio 4. Not that I'm skeptical but capturing from multiple depth devices is ton of data to keep in-sync and solve without error, especially with the higher res and framerates of the Intel devices. I imagine this requires super beefy computers, graphics cards, and a very fast network.

In practice, I can see how this feature may be useful for rehearsals, and then for final quality capture, you would still record and post-process the performance the traditional ipi way?

I'm totally speculating of course. For all I know, this feature might be something different from what we're thinking here. We'll see.

Anyway, it seems like exciting time times are coming. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:26 pm 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 9:48 pm
Posts: 23
I guess ipi studio v4 will mix Kinect 2.0 and Kinect1.0 ,will not support multi kinect 2.0,limited by hardware ,can not sametime capture and steaming data realtime and without losting data ,the data is very diffcult transfer by network ,if offical solve this problem just use software, that will change the world rules with a big step ,because change impossible to possible,or use other
driver for Kinect2.0 which can use multi kinect 2.0 on one pc and the same thing about the sport camera also can steaming data ,so very worth to wait for big success


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:03 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 838
Location: Florida USA
...

New Kinect version not due out (if is ever released) not until after 2020, already stated in online articles.

Correct, MS released development abilities for the Kinect v2 to 3rd party developers through Azure.

Brekel is working on a Multi Sensor – Alpha, still only supports Kinect v2 and needs multiple recording machines due to MS SDK limitations, but is not a real time skeletal tracking system as yet, just a multi sensor point cloud recorder/streamer.

Also correct, if iPi v4 has attempted "Real-Time" Kinect, or other 3D sensor capture, I don't know it can incorporate any jitter removal, maybe limited smoothing at most, and would be interesting to see how it would handle any tracking loss in realtime not to have a glitchy output file, waiting to see.

Hopefully, iPiSoft will put out some pre-release videos of v4 abilities before the intended end of June launch date, or at least ready for view on launch date.

It looks interesting that they included a "Build a Video" option, but I am guessing any external cams footage at time of recording would have to be calibrated with a separate calibration recording to work during tracking in iPi Studio v4, when not recorded with the v4 Recorder, but without a multi-start switch for multiple cams, it would be a bitch to start 6 cams at once without multiple staff to do so, or the lag between 1st cam and 6th cam start would eat up worthless recording time on SD card space, but of course could use a separate step later to crop lengths better, will be interesting to see this process used by someone.

Anyone can search videos of any of the stated 3D sensors output depth data as it appears in a PC view port to get an idea of the quality of the point clouds and how they may react with iPi tracking, but to me, the Kinect v2 still out performs any other sensor in this respect.

At any rate, I am glad to see what iPi has been working on and any improvements would be a plus for anyone.

...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:40 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
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Location: Los Angeles
A potential improvement with one of the Intel sensors is that it features a higher framerate--I think it's capable of 90 fps. That would be great if Mocap Studio could use that because the Kinect's 30 fps limit is probably its main weakness.

That said, it all comes down the quality of the data at higher frame rates. For example, the PS3 Eye is capable of 120 fps but the iPi devs have stated that the quality is not good enough at that speed for accurate tracking. (Earlier, I think the devs did say they can't use the Intel's higher frame rate but that was quite a while back, and these guys have a habit of overcoming the 'impossible'.) :)

Realistically, I'm not upgrading my capture devices (sensors or camera) anytime soon and will continue with Kinect 2 for a while longer. But as always, I'm keep an eye on anything new coming out.

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Last edited by Greenlaw on Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:13 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 838
Location: Florida USA
...

I asked iPi about the quality of the RealSense sensor already and was told it's quality isn't optimal for iPi Tracking, so I doubt would be any different if trying a real time tracking solution, at this point in time anyway, actually recommended the Orbbec Astra Pro, as you can still connect multiple sensors to one PC, but for quality of noise output compared to the Kinect v2, I am not sure, hopefully iPi will do videos for each cam as well.

I don't see the need in my case to upgrade any peripherals either, I am sticking with my PS Eyes in v4 as well, but may test a Kinect "real time" tracking option for my own curiosity :)

BUT... If I had the space to fully justify an upgrade, I think the Logitech Brio would be an optimal indoor camera for use with iPi, but @ $199, I would need the increased studio capture area to justify the purchase, it has 1080p @ 60fps / 720p @ 90fps and RightLight tech that would be very handy for iPi recording and a much wider FOV than any other HD cam in it's class, but I don't know much about the action cams, the cut rate ones available, although I don't think they have the same tech for best video output with iPi, I could be wrong on that, but I do see that the new high end action cams have voice control record start, wonder if it works with multiple cam set ups to eliminate a simultaneous start switch? There are some that are Wifi, so wondering if iPi Recorder v4 will support that when using multiple cams.

Link to many HD Action Cam models: https://www.gearbest.com/4k-60fps-action-cam-_gear/

There are several "real time" Depth Sensor SDKs out there now, but the tracking quality to me is far from optimal, and none that can use multiple sensors, but cool they can stream into other 3D packages in real time, but not a significant task for me.

I am sure they will do their best, just from the release of iPi v3 to where it is now has made leaps in improvement in tracking to me personally with my set up.

I am also wondering, with the new build video task, if you can export the individual 1080p RGB footage from multiple depth sensors, (wearing the correct colored clothing), and use those videos to track inside iPi Studio 4... that is if a user already has at least 3 Kinect v2, or other sensors, I am guessing it would take at least 3 sensors video views to track optimally, but I don't know, maybe only 2 would track ok if set up in a 90 degree set up, but still only 1080p @ 30fps video output.

...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 838
Location: Florida USA
...

Not being very familiar with action cams, I see there are multi cam remotes available for Go Pro cams, (up to 50 cams!), and an App called ACT for controlling multi wifi cams, as well as single cam remotes and may be other ways, but I am not going the action cam route in the near future with iPi, but good to know there is some available control for this.

Or you can get multi cameras with a single control remote and use each remote pressing all buttons simultaneously I guess, with a delayed start to get into recording position, if working alone.

Does seem to me that even the cheaper action cams w/ remote @ $50 or so would work fine within iPi Studio tracking, but since I have never used one, I don't know how well they record set up in smaller areas, although they look to work ok for this from YouTube videos recorded indoors.

Guessing I will have to wait until iPi demonstrates these cams, or some users start to upload videos showing the recordings and Studio tracking results, but just seems to me like a lot of extra steps and more money expenditure if the processing results aren't much better, the only plus I can see is for easier remote location recordings to just SD cards, better outdoor recording to easier set up for larger capture areas, less grainier 720p/1080p resolution in lower light, so waiting to see what some users come up with in that regard, as this is a whole new concept for use with iPi, so may be some growing pains involved as well.

...


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