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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:32 pm 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2159
Location: Moscow, Russia
You need to calibrate all 3 PS Moves separately, because calibration procedure determines their individual parameters. However, you don't need to calibrate each time before recording. Only when PS Moves have not been calibrated for a long period - like month. Or when you notice their readings look inaccurate.


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
vmaslov wrote:
You need to calibrate all 3 PS Moves separately, because calibration procedure determines their individual parameters. However, you don't need to calibrate each time before recording. Only when PS Moves have not been calibrated for a long period - like month. Or when you notice their readings look inaccurate.

Thankyou vmaslov !


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
So here I am with my Kinect v2 and 3 movers, but Im not satisfied.
Its impossible to make a 360 deg turn because when the movers in my hands passa behind my back ipisoft wont recognize my movements anymore and I think thats normal.

So I will trie to set up 4 ps3 cams but Im unsure because my available area is 4.7 x 3.6 meters . Maybee thats not enough space but maybee its worth a trie ?

Best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
The PS Move controllers don't record any positional data, they only record rotation (typically wrist or head,) so it doesn't matter if the Moves are hidden behind you. iPi still records the rotation.

The position data (i.e., where your hands are) is recorded by the PS3 Eye cameras, Kinect sensors, or whichever video or 3D capture device you use. But any of these devices cannot record what they can't see. To properly address occlusion problems (i.e., arms and hands behind the back) you need at least 4 PS3 Eye camera or at least 2 Kinect sensors (or comparable devices.) The Move devices have nothing to do with occlusion problems.

Hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:01 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
The PS Move controllers don't record any positional data, they only record rotation (typically wrist or head,) so it doesn't matter if the Moves are hidden behind you. iPi still records the rotation.

The position data (i.e., where your hands are) is recorded by the PS3 Eye cameras, Kinect sensors, or whichever video or 3D capture device you use. But any of these devices cannot record what they can't see. To properly address occlusion problems (i.e., arms and hands behind the back) you need at least 4 PS3 Eye camera or at least 2 Kinect sensors (or comparable devices.) The Move devices have nothing to do with occlusion problems.

Hope this helps.


Thankyou Greenlaw !

Yes it really helped me and I suppose the rotation data is due to the magnometer inside ps3 mover.

Well Ive ordered 4 ps3 cams and Ive started to read yours dok setting up 4 ps3 cams and it will take a little while until i understand the whole process..

Best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:42 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
Sure, glad to help. I hope you can get it working for you.

I've used both PS3 Eye cameras and Kinect sensors (v1 and v2.) I don't use the PS3 Eye cameras in the house because they require too much space, special clothing, and even lighting (no hard shadows), which is difficult to accommodate in a small space.

For me, two Kinect sensors has been ideal...two sensors give you quality comparable to using four PS3 Eye cameras but the setup can fit in a smaller room and the sensors don't require special lighting or clothing. (There are some different requirements though.) I've also used three sensors a few times, which I find can be a little more accurate, but in general, two sensors has been good enough for what I need.

If you find yourself choosing between v1 and v2 Kinect, v1 is easier to use and you can connect multiple devices to a single computer. If you use v2, you must use multiple computers. As for quality, v2 will give you cleaner and more accurate results because the point cloud is considerably cleaner (less noisy,) than v1.

The downside is that Kinect v1 and v2 are now EOF, so they may be hard to find and there is no future support for them. There have been reports that MS still has Kinect or Kinect-like technology in development but we probably won't see a product for a long time, and it's not clear if what they're doing is even related to gaming.

That said, if you decide to go with 3D devices, there are new devices by other manufacturers that are comparable and possibly better than Kinect v1, I would look there.

PS3 Eye cameras are still the best value for cost and capture quality. As mentioned, it's a bit more involved to capture with PS3 Eye cameras and you do need a fairly large space to set up and record in. I was able to use six PS3 Eye cameras in my garage but I had to pretty much clear the garage completely, which wasn't practical for us. I don't currently have that much space available in my garage, which is why I stick with Kinect.

If you don't have enough space indoors, note that some users have good luck recording with PS3 Eye cameras outdoors. If you do this, it's best to record before sunrise or on cloudy days when shadows tend to be soft and non-directional.

Hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:41 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
Sure, glad to help. I hope you can get it working for you.

I've used both PS3 Eye cameras and Kinect sensors (v1 and v2.) I don't use the PS3 Eye cameras in the house because they require too much space, special clothing, and even lighting (no hard shadows), which is difficult to accommodate in a small space.

For me, two Kinect sensors has been ideal...two sensors give you quality comparable to using four PS3 Eye cameras but the setup can fit in a smaller room and the sensors don't require special lighting or clothing. (There are some different requirements though.) I've also used three sensors a few times, which I find can be a little more accurate, but in general, two sensors has been good enough for what I need.

If you find yourself choosing between v1 and v2 Kinect, v1 is easier to use and you can connect multiple devices to a single computer. If you use v2, you must use multiple computers. As for quality, v2 will give you cleaner and more accurate results because the point cloud is considerably cleaner (less noisy,) than v1.

The downside is that Kinect v1 and v2 are now EOF, so they may be hard to find and there is no future support for them. There have been reports that MS still has Kinect or Kinect-like technology in development but we probably won't see a product for a long time, and it's not clear if what they're doing is even related to gaming.

That said, if you decide to go with 3D devices, there are new devices by other manufacturers that are comparable and possibly better than Kinect v1, I would look there.

PS3 Eye cameras are still the best value for cost and capture quality. As mentioned, it's a bit more involved to capture with PS3 Eye cameras and you do need a fairly large space to set up and record in. I was able to use six PS3 Eye cameras in my garage but I had to pretty much clear the garage completely, which wasn't practical for us. I don't currently have that much space available in my garage, which is why I stick with Kinect.

If you don't have enough space indoors, note that some users have good luck recording with PS3 Eye cameras outdoors. If you do this, it's best to record before sunrise or on cloudy days when shadows tend to be soft and non-directional.

Hope this helps.

Thankyou Greenlaw!
This really opens my eyes especially how to plan for the equippement. First off all my space is also a little bit to tight 4.7 x4 m but i will try 4 ps3 cameras because ive alleready ordered them. The 2 Kinect v1 is also very interresting running on the same computer not requiring som much space and easy to set up.

The best solution for me is another Kinect v2 but my seconds older computer has no usb3 and just gtx 650 TI, so I need another computer.

Well once again thanks a lot for this information...I really appreciate it.
A new life now starts with mocap by myself :-).

All the best
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:08 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
Oops...I meant to type EOL, meaning they're 'end of life' or discontinued. But I'm sure you know what I meant. :P

Yes, plan your gear carefully. You don't want to buy a lot stuff you can't use. A few years ago, I was actually doing fine with 2 to 3 Kinect v1, but a while back I upgraded my gear to use four v2 Kinects. That didn't work out for me. I already had four additional computers that I use as render boxes, so I bought USB cards, graphics cards, cables and four v2 Kinects. Unfortunately, I could never get the Kinect v2 devices to work properly with these four render boxes. (I think the motherboards were just a little too old.) If I were to try this again, I would have experimented with just one render box setup first, to see if it was compatible. But I had let my enthusiasm get the better of me.

These days, I'm using two v2 Kinects with a Lenovo 'workstation' laptop and a Wacom Companion 2. This combo works great for me and I have plenty of, um, backup devices so to speak. But I would rather have the money I spent for the unused gear and get back the time I lost trying to get four v2 to run. Oh, well...it was a good technical learning experience for me. (Always looking for that silver lining.) :)

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:05 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
Oops...I meant to type EOL, meaning they're 'end of life' or discontinued. But I'm sure you know what I meant. :P

Yes, plan your gear carefully. You don't want to buy a lot stuff you can't use. A few years ago, I was actually doing fine with 2 to 3 Kinect v1, but a while back I upgraded my gear to use four v2 Kinects. That didn't work out for me. I already had four additional computers that I use as render boxes, so I bought USB cards, graphics cards, cables and four v2 Kinects. Unfortunately, I could never get the Kinect v2 devices to work properly with these four render boxes. (I think the motherboards were just a little too old.) If I were to try this again, I would have experimented with just one render box setup first, to see if it was compatible. But I had let my enthusiasm get the better of me.

These days, I'm using two v2 Kinects with a Lenovo 'workstation' laptop and a Wacom Companion 2. This combo works great for me and I have plenty of, um, backup devices so to speak. But I would rather have the money I spent for the unused gear and get back the time I lost trying to get four v2 to run. Oh, well...it was a good technical learning experience for me. (Always looking for that silver lining.) :)

A few years ago I bought the first skylake x 6700K gtx 980 ti and mb GA-Z170X-UD5 TH samsung M2 this compuier is today outdatet but it works like charm. I started with Brekell proboddy v2 proface v2 and of course my kinnect v2... but to much jitter all the time. I couldnt figure out how to get ridd of this jitter. So I saw a third party using ipisoft with one Kinect v2 and on this utube video the character turned in 360 degrees but i didnt beleive it. Any way i started to download the ipisoft trial and hurray..all jitters gone away. But no 360 degrees turning around so i believed that their video was a fake. But anyway i was very satisfied. Before trial expired i checked on noitom perception neuron with 32 senors hanging around your body.. but a little bit to expensive for me.. and calibration everytyme you were near loudspeakers etc...all the sensors has to be calibrated one by one ..to much work for mee… so i decided to rental the ipisoft ver 4 basic and here i am very satisfied and i will trie to find 2 used kinnect v1 beacuse i think i can handle that setup faster than with the 4 ps3 cams arriving the end of this week… so if I understood you right, the ipisoft v4 basic can also handle 2 Kinects v1 ?
You made my day Greenlaw and i checked yoursvideos..the best i ever seen with ipisoft.
All the best
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:41 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
Thanks! Most of what I have online is kinda old now because I've been busy with a lot of unrelated work and family stuff, and I really fell behind with my personal art and animation projects. I've been planning to get back in the swing of things after Halloween though. I've been thinking of making some proper iPi tutorials too.

It's possible to do 360 turns with a single Kinect...when Kinect support was first introduced several years ago, that was one of the things I tried. (This was way, way back when I made 'Happy Box'.) Using a single Kinect is almost like using 2 or 3 PS3 Eye cameras because you have both front and sides covered using the Kinect's 3D sensor. (Kinect uses IR to scan a 3D point cloud. It can also record RGB video but iPi does not use that data with Kinect.) So, single Kinect capture can almost capture 360 but may lose the far leg or arm during a turn. Fortunately, the iPi's tracker can be 'trained' to figure out what it can't see. It takes time and practice but if you're persistent, it's possible. (Not saying it will be perfect, just possible.)

Naturally, it's better if you have two Kinects or four or more PS3 Eye cameras. The more iPi can see of the motion, the more accurate the tracking results.

Another key thing, which many new users don't immediately get, is that you need to understand how the software interprets the data as 'motion', and you may need to adjust your performance to help it out. As I said, the software can't track what it can't see so, for example, when it's important to capture what's going on behind you, maybe you should be facing away from the camera, not toward it. This is true no matter how many cameras/devices are used. When recording, remember that you need to perform for the software's tracker, not a human audience.

Re: Basic, I think it allows a max of two Kinect sensors. Ok, just checked and that's correct. From the specs:

Supported configurations:
1 or 2 depth sensors (Kinect 2; Kinect; Intel RealSense D415 / D435; Orbbec Astra / Astra Pro; ASUS Xtion / Xtion 2; PrimeSense Carmine 1.08 – see detailed comparison)
3 to 6 RGB cameras (Sony PS3 Eye / Logitech C922 / other, see details)

For more info, go here:

http://ipisoft.com/software/basic-edition/

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Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

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