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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:49 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
Thanks! Most of what I have online is kinda old now because I've been busy with a lot of unrelated work and family stuff, and I really fell behind with my personal art and animation projects. I've been planning to get back in the swing of things after Halloween though. I've been thinking of making some proper iPi tutorials too.

It's possible to do 360 turns with a single Kinect...when Kinect support was first introduced several years ago, that was one of the things I tried. (This was way, way back when I made 'Happy Box'.) Using a single Kinect is almost like using 2 or 3 PS3 Eye cameras because you have both front and sides covered using the Kinect's 3D sensor. (Kinect uses IR to scan a 3D point cloud. It can also record RGB video but iPi does not use that data with Kinect.) So, single Kinect capture can almost capture 360 but may lose the far leg or arm during a turn. Fortunately, the iPi's tracker can be 'trained' to figure out what it can't see. It takes time and practice but if you're persistent, it's possible. (Not saying it will be perfect, just possible.)

Naturally, it's better if you have two Kinects or four or more PS3 Eye cameras. The more iPi can see of the motion, the more accurate the tracking results.

Another key thing, which many new users don't immediately get, is that you need to understand how the software interprets the data as 'motion', and you may need to adjust your performance to help it out. As I said, the software can't track what it can't see so, for example, when it's important to capture what's going on behind you, maybe you should be facing away from the camera, not toward it. This is true no matter how many cameras/devices are used. When recording, remember that you need to perform for the software's tracker, not a human audience.

Re: Basic, I think it allows a max of two Kinect sensors. Ok, just checked and that's correct. From the specs:

Supported configurations:
1 or 2 depth sensors (Kinect 2; Kinect; Intel RealSense D415 / D435; Orbbec Astra / Astra Pro; ASUS Xtion / Xtion 2; PrimeSense Carmine 1.08 – see detailed comparison)
3 to 6 RGB cameras (Sony PS3 Eye / Logitech C922 / other, see details)

For more info, go here:

http://ipisoft.com/software/basic-edition/

Yes yes yes….. here is the end of yours 360....
Attachment:
File comment: :-) I will trie to figure it out...just started my kinnect and ipisoft… :-)
360.jpg
360.jpg [ 102.69 KiB | Viewed 867 times ]


now we talking deep learning...and I will trie to understand "how to train the IP tracker…" It takes a little while untill i understand whats going on, but when my brain is ready, i will start trainig…..

All the best
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
So here Im back again, its been a very interresting week.
Reading docs, experiments and reading forums I have 2 questions:

1. Kinect v2 Xbox one, PC and 3 ps3 movers:
------------------------------------------------
When calibrating the movers often the callibration doesnt work for me. After putting the mover on a flat Surface and checked th ps button ,I start moving around my movers but the calibrating hangs, the process doesnt and with " succés" so i cancel and try and try and try again. A few times i manage to get "succes" Whats wrong ?

2. 4 ps3 cams and 3 ps3 movers:
--------------------------------------
Im trying to figure out how to arrange the cams in a proper manner. Regarding my squared room 4.6 x 3.6 M and regarding the ipisoft dok with half a cirkle, i wonder if it is okay to put the cams in each corner of my room instead of half a cirkle. Its easier to buy camera stands that fit every corner.

Best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:28 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
Not sure why the Moves aren't immediately calibrating but a few thoughts: Are you doing this near your computer, large speakers or near a TV? There could be magnetic interference. When using a BT adapter, I like to attach it to a USB cable and run it out to the capture space. This way, the devices can be calibrated in the same space and I don't need to be concerned about interference. (These days I use the built-in BT adapter in my tablet computer, which is kept near my capture space anyway.)

As for PS3 Eye camera positions, in my experience, it depends on what I'm capturing.

If the motion is mostly camera-facing 180-240 degrees, then setting up a semi-circle will work fine. In fact, it will work better since you have more visual coverage for that front-facing region, especially if you stagger the heights. It may also allow for a larger capture space in a small area since all the cameras are along one side of the room. Back when I used PS3 Eye, this is how I usually set it up in my garage. My garage is not very big and placing the cameras along only the front and sides allowed me to effectively double the depth of the capture area.

If you place the cameras in all four corners, in theory, you should have 360 coverage. This assumes nothing is obstructing the camera views. You should also be able to stagger the heights of the cameras. If all the cameras are angled down from high up, they will potentially miss leg motions. If they're all pointed up from low, you get problems with arms and the head. And if they're all at the same level, you may have calibration issues. So, ideally, they should all be at different heights and visually covering as much of the area as possible. (Can't stress this enough: the tracker can't track what it can't see.)

The same thinking holds true for Kinect-style devices. most of the time, setting up devices on one side of a small room can capture most actions and give you the most space to perform in. Setting it up for a full 360 may give you full coverage but it may also force the performance space to be smaller. An exception would be if your room is long and rectagular...then it probably makes sense to do 360 coverage since you can't really place the devices side by side. I do this in the living room, that is, place a device in opposite corners of the room when I need to capture a long walk. Most of the time, the devices are doing semi-circle coverage from corners of one side the living room. If you look at some of my home capture sessions on YouTube, I think you'll see the different setups.

(I'll post some proper training examples as soon as I'm done with my current tasks. (Sorry, not iPi-mocap related tasks, mostly family and work stuff. Sigh!)) :)

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Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

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Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
Not sure why the Moves aren't immediately calibrating but a few thoughts: Are you doing this near your computer, large speakers or near a TV? There could be magnetic interference. When using a BT adapter, I like to attach it to a USB cable and run it out to the capture space. This way, the devices can be calibrated in the same space and I don't need to be concerned about interference. (These days I use the built-in BT adapter in my tablet computer, which is kept near my capture space anyway.)

As for PS3 Eye camera positions, in my experience, it depends on what I'm capturing.

If the motion is mostly camera-facing 180-240 degrees, then setting up a semi-circle will work fine. In fact, it will work better since you have more visual coverage for that front-facing region, especially if you stagger the heights. It may also allow for a larger capture space in a small area since all the cameras are along one side of the room. Back when I used PS3 Eye, this is how I usually set it up in my garage. My garage is not very big and placing the cameras along only the front and sides allowed me to effectively double the depth of the capture area.

If you place the cameras in all four corners, in theory, you should have 360 coverage. This assumes nothing is obstructing the camera views. You should also be able to stagger the heights of the cameras. If all the cameras are angled down from high up, they will potentially miss leg motions. If they're all pointed up from low, you get problems with arms and the head. And if they're all at the same level, you may have calibration issues. So, ideally, they should all be at different heights and visually covering as much of the area as possible. (Can't stress this enough: the tracker can't track what it can't see.)

The same thinking holds true for Kinect-style devices. most of the time, setting up devices on one side of a small room can capture most actions and give you the most space to perform in. Setting it up for a full 360 may give you full coverage but it may also force the performance space to be smaller. An exception would be if your room is long and rectagular...then it probably makes sense to do 360 coverage since you can't really place the devices side by side. I do this in the living room, that is, place a device in opposite corners of the room when I need to capture a long walk. Most of the time, the devices are doing semi-circle coverage from corners of one side the living room. If you look at some of my home capture sessions on YouTube, I think you'll see the different setups.

(I'll post some proper training examples as soon as I'm done with my current tasks. (Sorry, not iPi-mocap related tasks, mostly family and work stuff. Sigh!)) :)

Thanks a lot Greenlaw !
Regarding the calibration of ps3 movers, i prolonged the usb Cable with the usb Bluetooth adapter into the middle of the calibration area, but still problems :-(
I noticed that when i make a fast calibration just 4 seconds it works but when I do longer calibrations there is no succés !

Yes I have analogue speakers, tv set etc along one of the walls, but im around 1 meters away from them- Isnt that enough ?

Regarding ps3 cams Ill be back when i have red yours info and tried to understand the placement of cams.

All the best
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
Re: Speakers, it's probably okay. I don't really think they'd affect calibration unless you were right next to it during calibration.

It's possible for recording accuracy to be affected by electromagnetic fields but you'd notice that when you try to apply the motion data. If it does become an issue, try moving the speaker out of the room and see if that helps. If it doesn't make any difference, you'll know the issue is caused by something else. TBH, I wouldn't worry about this unless you're seeing a problem later.

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Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

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Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
Re: Speakers, it's probably okay. I don't really think they'd affect calibration unless you were right next to it during calibration.

It's possible for recording accuracy to be affected by electromagnetic fields but you'd notice that when you try to apply the motion data. If it does become an issue, try moving the speaker out of the room and see if that helps. If it doesn't make any difference, you'll know the issue is caused by something else. TBH, I wouldn't worry about this unless you're seeing a problem later.

Thanks Greenlaw!
Applying the motion data works perfect and as I do understand there is no problems during the process.

I red somewhere (dont remember where just now) that i can start/stop the recording by pressing the start button on the mover , and there should be a little buzz from the mover, but it doesnt work… ?

Well i dont knew if i do this the right way namely; after recording i run the tracker once (without foot tracker enabled) . After that i apply the motion controllers and then i do the jitter remowal process with options number 5 on legs hands and 3 on head and torso and last trajectory fitler maximum smooth to the right.

Best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:31 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
funwithps3 wrote:
I red somewhere (dont remember where just now) that i can start/stop the recording by pressing the start button on the mover , and there should be a little buzz from the mover, but it doesnt work… ?

Yes, the Start button should start recording and it vibrates the controller in your hand so you don't have to look at it or your computer. I use this feature so I can run the software while also performing the motion. I'm not sure why that isn't working in your controller.

Quote:
after recording i run the tracker once (without foot tracker enabled) . After that i apply the motion controllers and then i do the jitter remowal process with options number 5 on legs hands and 3 on head and torso and last trajectory fitler maximum smooth to the right.

You should run the tracker first. 'Once' depends on the complexity of the motion and quality of the capture. For complex motions, I'll supervise the process and make corrections as needed. Most of the time, if the motion isn't complicated (i.e., probably most motions,) it's fine to let it just run though, but I may still still need to go back and perform 'clean up', which is is done by selecting the ROI where I see an error, and then I manually adjust the pose and re-track through the ROI. Tip: try tracking backwards through these regions. This can give the tracker more info or at least different info about the motion it's trying to solve.

After I get the motion looking good, then I apply the Move data. But before I apply the Move data, I like to save a backup copy of my file, just to be safe.

When I have to motion looking pretty good, (despite some jitttering,) then I apply Jitter Removal.

Note: Kinect v1 data tends to be more jittery than Kinect v2 and PS3 eye data. You can hammer it out but be careful: too much Jitter Removal can make the motion look 'robotic'. With any capture data, you'll want to use different amounts of JR for different parts of the body. Depending on the motion, I may use different amounts of JR in different ROIs.

Previously, that was pretty much it but in version 4, they changed the JR procedure a little. You can read more about it at the bottom of this page:

http://docs.ipisoft.com/Motion_Controllers

Hope this helps.

_________________
Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

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Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
funwithps3 wrote:
I red somewhere (dont remember where just now) that i can start/stop the recording by pressing the start button on the mover , and there should be a little buzz from the mover, but it doesnt work… ?

Yes, the Start button should start recording and it vibrates the controller in your hand so you don't have to look at it or your computer. I use this feature so I can run the software while also performing the motion. I'm not sure why that isn't working in your controller.



Quote:
after recording i run the tracker once (without foot tracker enabled) . After that i apply the motion controllers and then i do the jitter remowal process with options number 5 on legs hands and 3 on head and torso and last trajectory fitler maximum smooth to the right.

You should run the tracker first. 'Once' depends on the complexity of the motion and quality of the capture. For complex motions, I'll supervise the process and make corrections as needed. Most of the time, if the motion isn't complicated (i.e., probably most motions,) it's fine to let it just run though, but I may still still need to go back and perform 'clean up', which is is done by selecting the ROI where I see an error, and then I manually adjust the pose and re-track through the ROI. Tip: try tracking backwards through these regions. This can give the tracker more info or at least different info about the motion it's trying to solve.

After I get the motion looking good, then I apply the Move data. But before I apply the Move data, I like to save a backup copy of my file, just to be safe.

When I have to motion looking pretty good, (despite some jitttering,) then I apply Jitter Removal.

Note: Kinect v1 data tends to be more jittery than Kinect v2 and PS3 eye data. You can hammer it out but be careful: too much Jitter Removal can make the motion look 'robotic'. With any capture data, you'll want to use different amounts of JR for different parts of the body. Depending on the motion, I may use different amounts of JR in different ROIs.

Previously, that was pretty much it but in version 4, they changed the JR procedure a little. You can read more about it at the bottom of this page:

http://docs.ipisoft.com/Motion_Controllers

Hope this helps.

Thankyou Greenlaw !
The controller now works by pressing the start button :-) ..and I will start practice the "clean up" process.

Btw … there is a microsoft issue with Kinectservice.exe in my win 10 ver 1809 and i read on microsoft forum that kinnect v2 for Xbox one on pc .. the kinectservice.exe is going off and on in a repetead manner for a lot off users including myself. Well this is only at start up with win 10 and mostly all of the times I shut down and start again and than its working.

Best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:38 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
funwithps3 wrote:
I red somewhere (dont remember where just now) that i can start/stop the recording by pressing the start button on the mover , and there should be a little buzz from the mover, but it doesnt work… ?

Yes, the Start button should start recording and it vibrates the controller in your hand so you don't have to look at it or your computer. I use this feature so I can run the software while also performing the motion. I'm not sure why that isn't working in your controller.

Quote:
after recording i run the tracker once (without foot tracker enabled) . After that i apply the motion controllers and then i do the jitter remowal process with options number 5 on legs hands and 3 on head and torso and last trajectory fitler maximum smooth to the right.

You should run the tracker first. 'Once' depends on the complexity of the motion and quality of the capture. For complex motions, I'll supervise the process and make corrections as needed. Most of the time, if the motion isn't complicated (i.e., probably most motions,) it's fine to let it just run though, but I may still still need to go back and perform 'clean up', which is is done by selecting the ROI where I see an error, and then I manually adjust the pose and re-track through the ROI. Tip: try tracking backwards through these regions. This can give the tracker more info or at least different info about the motion it's trying to solve.

After I get the motion looking good, then I apply the Move data. But before I apply the Move data, I like to save a backup copy of my file, just to be safe.

When I have to motion looking pretty good, (despite some jitttering,) then I apply Jitter Removal.

Note: Kinect v1 data tends to be more jittery than Kinect v2 and PS3 eye data. You can hammer it out but be careful: too much Jitter Removal can make the motion look 'robotic'. With any capture data, you'll want to use different amounts of JR for different parts of the body. Depending on the motion, I may use different amounts of JR in different ROIs.

Previously, that was pretty much it but in version 4, they changed the JR procedure a little. You can read more about it at the bottom of this page:

http://docs.ipisoft.com/Motion_Controllers

Hope this helps.

Greenlaw wrote:
" Tip: try tracking backwards through these regions. This can give the tracker more info or at least different info about the motion it's trying to solve."

...yes I had some problem with my left hand shaking during the aim process, and i couldnt remove it after first jitter process so I ROI the actuall area...and tracked backwards..and then jittering process again...and now my left hand is steady… im surprised and happy :-)
Best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:45 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
So I find out that buying a laptop and taking 6 ps3 cams (max for my basic edition) out in the garden where the area is not restricted should bee just fine.
But I wonder , may I use the basic edition on my stationary pc , and install it with the same license key on the laptoop or is there an extra fee for this purpoce ?

Best regards
funwithps3


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