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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:37 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
95-100% GPU usage while processing is exactly what you want and with a 980 Ti you should be near 3 fps tracking and close to 3.5 fps during refining, using the new algorithm if using the low resolution speed, is this true?
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[quote="Snapz"]…

its sometimes 6 fps generally and 37 fps with jitter process;

To manage to put the all cameras to one spot on the floor with the Viewers x at hip heigh..I had to order several monopods and im looking for a plate to screw on the monopods to attach the ps3 cams ...anyway i roughly tried to aim the cameras to one spot on the floor ..and I putted a black hat on my head and im wearing black glowes...so its a halloween feeling in my " studio" :-)

After that the calibration Went true 100 % Little adjustment reg the space between cam 1 and 2 and the heigh of cam 1.

So after that a little recording myself moving slowly.. and voila… the actor fits almost perfect…. and follows rather good and the actor is almost in the same postion
in all cameras… hurray..and thankyou so much for theese instructions which just putted me liitle bit further on my way to make it really fun with ps3:-)


I will now try to practice the rest off yours instructions ...and i be back with reports later on...

Happy Hallowen
and best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Oh, that may be with head tracking turned OFF, is it? Seems it is to me anyway.

I never track anything with head tracking OFF, but that's me, for others it may work fine and it will increase the tracking speed.

I max all my tracking options though, head ON, Shoulders by video, Very Flex spine and track with Low Res Actor speed, just my preference for standing motion actions, if sitting actions, I do go to just Flex spine and rare cases I use stiff spine, just depends.

Well, glad to hear it is working out a bit better for you :)

Here is a test I did to show how smooth and accurate iPi can be, with just using the integral clean up tools in a very short time, 1 hr. total, (that is compared to the time it would take to manually clean up the data from a so called "budget" real-time system anyway), I use a 970 FTW, if I used a 1080 Ti, it could most likely knock 10-15 mins off, and all I had to do was click a few buttons and watch it, even made a sandwich while it was working, Ha! ...

3 Moves used, head and hands, there is really no massive clean up later, maybe some offsets on the arms, depending on the character used for, this is exactly what it would look like when imported into any game engine, or 3D application also, maybe just boost the speed a few frames, but not much, and add floor contact for the feet so the toes bend a bit better.

Link: https://youtu.be/uMQSLbVbX1w Natural looking??

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

Oh, that may be with head tracking turned OFF, is it? Seems it is to me anyway.

I never track anything with head tracking OFF, but that's me, for others it may work fine and it will increase the tracking speed.

I max all my tracking options though, head ON, Shoulders by video, Very Flex spine and track with Low Res Actor speed, just my preference for standing motion actions, if sitting actions, I do go to just Flex spine and rare cases I use stiff spine, just depends.

Well, glad to hear it is working out a bit better for you :)

Here is a test I did to show how smooth and accurate iPi can be, with just using the integral clean up tools in a very short time, 1 hr. total, (that is compared to the time it would take to manually clean up the data from a so called "budget" real-time system anyway), I use a 970 FTW, if I used a 1080 Ti, it could most likely knock 10-15 mins off, and all I had to do was click a few buttons and watch it, even made a sandwich while it was working, Ha! ...

3 Moves used, head and hands, there is really no massive clean up later, maybe some offsets on the arms, depending on the character used for, this is exactly what it would look like when imported into any game engine, or 3D application also, maybe just boost the speed a few frames, but not much, and add floor contact for the feet so the toes bend a bit better.

Link: https://youtu.be/uMQSLbVbX1w Natural looking??

...


Thankyou Snapz !

Yes after tracking with head ON it went down:
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I suppose this is the right settings for a dancer maybe ?
I have to wait for the daylight before i go on practice.

Regarding yours video … wov wov… if somebody asked me to gess what kind of motioncapture system is this ?, i should answer XSENSE....
Are you using the pro edition or the basic ? How many ps3 cams and how big is the area and how did you Place yours cameras ….., which height on cams ,and the space between them. A cirkle 360 deg or hafl a cirkle ??

All the best
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

Don't worry about the hand position while in track forward, it should refit close enough to the correct position for tracking, and yes, it will snap to straight with the forearm while tracking forward always, if you start in a T Pose, keep the palms down and the thumbs at a natural angle, slightly downward.

You can add the Move data at the start frame before you run the refine process, or you can do it after, I do it before just out of habit and it will retain the wrist rotations while refining.

You should be able to use the new algorithm for tracking without many issues, but again, this relies greatly on several other factors you may not be meeting fully, so some tracking loss may occur due to that.

95-100% GPU usage while processing is exactly what you want and with a 980 Ti you should be near 3 fps tracking and close to 3.5 fps during refining, using the new algorithm if using the low resolution speed, is this true? If using high res speed tracking, which you probably are at this point, you will loose about 1 fps, but you will loose much more fps speed when using the old algorithm, but if that's what it takes to get better results until you get the hang of the program a bit more, then it is what it is.

As I stated before, the use of PS Eye camera is much more strict in following the parameters needed and must be followed consistently, you should be aware that the iPi scene light is also needed to be placed properly, as iPi tracking uses directional lighting and this should also reflect in the lighting of your capture area of your room with enough light for all cameras to see the colors of the Actor clearly and a brighter light coming from a single direction onto the Actor, while still trying not to cast harsh self shadows, or floor shadows, this is why the use of more lower wattage light points around the actor is better than less high wattage bright lighting from fewer points.

I am not going to say it is easy for every user to accommodate the needs for PS Eyes for best results, but if you stick with it long enough and consistently record with the proper settings and set up, eventually you will get better results, but without following the needs for that system, it may frustrate you more than convince you that good results are possible.

Many don't like the tracking speeds with PS Eyes, as it is a longer time process, but personally I feel, since I get good tracking results, the time spent processing is less than spending hours cleaning up poor real-time mocap from other budget systems, since most of the clean up can be done easily and basically automatically right inside iPi Studio for the most part.

You should probably stick to shorter, easier motions at this point and not long drawn out performances until you get a better feel for the program using PS Eyes and Move controllers, then work your way up to faster and more complex actions and get yourself a consistent process worked out that works best for you, but there is a path of the processing that should be followed for best results and then stuck with.

First, work on getting the best calibration you can, this is critical to the best tracking results and once the video and cal files are opened in Studio, it is best to spin the floor grid square to the Actor first, before refitting the Actor, this will help when the IK Move/Rotate tool is used later.
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Do you mean that " spin the floor grid Square " is like in the second Picture ?
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Attachment:
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spin the floor grid square B.jpg [ 440.66 KiB | Viewed 844 times ]




Second, is to get your capture area and lighting much better and your camera positioning better, aligning them all to one single spot on the center of the floor, and best to use the view port grid to achieve this with the center point of the grid being at hip level, or as close as possible to that.

Third, is to wear the proper contrasting colored, tighter fitting clothing, even light material darker colored gloves and a darker head wrap will help greatly.

Forth, is to set up the iPi Actor scaling and skeleton properly, lowering the leg length to get the hips a bit lower to center of mass usually is required, and the sizing sliders for the overall body mass should be set low, then try to match the rest of the sliders accordingly to be slightly thinner than the actual performer for better results.

Fifth, run track forward with whatever processing works best for you, you may need to stop and re-start the tracking at some points, this is common, but shouldn't be excessive tracking losses in my opinion, or something else may be wrong.

Sixth, run the refine process, either forward, or backward, with or without applying the Moves data first, and if you see an area come up where the tracking was off a bit, you can stop and track forward back over those areas to help clean it up, BUT DO NOT HIT THE REFIT BUTTON WHEN DOING THIS, or it will erase any prior run frames that have had refine on them, just track forward, or backward, then re-start the Refine process a few frames prior, or after the spot you stopped to re-track, depending on which way you were running the Refining.

Once you get to this point, re-apply the Moves data at the ROI start frame for the take, (you must rotate the Moves on the Actor to the correct position first using the Move Tool), and if the hands aren't positioned closely to the video hands position, rotate them better and re-apply the Data.

Then you can replay the animation at this point, it will be a bit jittery yet, but you are just looking for any glitchy, or bad areas that may need more refining and take care of them in this phase.

Once all is to your satisfaction, you can run the Jitter Removal process, but best not to go above the default "2" settings per body part, except the head you may have to go higher to "5", especially if not using a head Move.

Finally, just let your animation playback in a loop several times and watch it for any areas that you might want to address, then scale the ROI only to encompass that area, so you don't mess up the entire ROI accidentally, because any changes, or re-tracking of those areas will need to have the entire process re-run, at least from the Refine portion forward, if not to include the re-tracking forward in the area, there is a few tricks to master when doing this, but you should be able to figure them out.

After all this done and you are happy, remembering the Moves data must always be the final step after any repairs and definitely before final exporting, whether you use finger gestures from inside iPi, or after in another 3D editing package.

In my experience with iPi, it is better to export your animations with the trajectory filter set high, 4-5, to pre-smooth the animations better, this is my personal preference, but is user choice, and not necessary if you want to smooth the animations in another way in post, depending on your 3D editing package, but it does help to pre-smooth it with iPi first.

I tried to lay out a basic processing path, so I hope it helps some, though no one can guarantee individual user results.

Good Luck and keep things posted for you progression.

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:09 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

A lot to remember and follow, I understand, but it will become more clear and much easier after a while and you will know better what to always do consistently, it really only takes a few minutes to set properly once you do it more regularly, though it does get more difficult if you have to break down, or move your cameras daily, my set up is permanently affixed, so I don't even have to run a calibration for each recording session, even if days apart, I check it like once a month, or if I see it is off when I refit the Actor, or if I ever change the position of the cameras.

You should be doing a calibration before and after a session, as your set up is much more prone to getting off per session, that way you don't loose a recording due to bad calibration when finished.

No, spin the grid so the blue arrow faces the camera you are facing and your iPi Actor will snap that way once you spin it too, BUT that calibration shown looks to me to be off a bit, but hard to tell with the Actor not snapped onto the performer (you).

Remember to always set the iPi Scene light to match the direction of the most light direction, very important, has to be re-set for each new project, or if it is always from an exact direction as a camera is placed, you can use match scene light to camera button in Scene Tab, but not a very reliable way to set it, manually is always best, as even slightly off can change the tracking effects, you will get a better feel for this as you work more with the program.

(Note: squaring the floor grid isn't a requirement, but it will help you later when and if you need to use the move IK tools for any reason, it will always be square to the floor coordinates and also will match better to any 3D editors floor later when importing).

You probably should not be using Very Flex spine yet, Flex is fine for now, you need much more practice before getting that to work right, Flex will work for most motions, especially within the floor area you have now.

Remember, you can not wear shorts with PS Eyes, and the helmet is white, so head tracking ON may not track the head well, since it is close to the wall color, contrasting colors on all body parts to the background is pretty much required. Try to use a different color shirt than pants also, medium blue T shirt works well, but really any different color should work, other than white.

Hold the palms down and the Move controllers in the palms facing forward as you would hold them to use them and keep them held tight in the palms that way throughout the performance, this is very important for accurate rotations to be captured throughout.

You must be more consistent with your color choices and clothing choices, and lighting, or you are just going to be chasing your tail for each new project.

By the look of the views, your cams aren't centered yet to the performer, YOU should be closer to the middle in each view, making a center point mark on the floor with masking tape will help always identify the dead center for use with the view port grid tool, (must be turned on-off in the tools ribbon), to run the center line through that mark, then it doesn't really matter the point you start your motion, although it isn't mandatory to do this, this is helpful to keep the performer within a better specific area of the floor in all cams.

You really do not need to manually adjust the cam 1 to cam 2 spacing, just set the cam 1 height off floor accurately, the rest will, or should, automatically adjust themselves close enough. if they don't, then something went wrong in the light tracking, probably from too many misdetects in the sequence and you should maybe always end the light touching the floor at the dead center floor mark. (5 floor touches are recommended, spaced evenly).

I use 6 cams, Basic version, mostly single performer motions and I have a much larger area then you, 7 m x 4 m (L x W), cams in a rectangle-ish config., with one camera front @ 1.50 m and rear @ 1.75 m, 2 cams set higher on each side wall, 1.75 and 2.45 m spaced accordingly, but your area is so crazy cluttered, not sure you can add more cams and them being able to be positioned for a clear floor view, which is required. (You should really work on cleaning up, or at least covering some of the clutter with white sheets).
To check how the background may be interfering with the tracking, open the View panel from the top ribbon, and click the Hide Background selection, if the background is properly hidden, it will all turn mostly gray with very little interfering objects showing, just some dots on in the view port per cam is all that should be present, if not, work to correct this somehow.

(Note: at least one camera should be set at between 1.20 and 1.50 m off the floor, (usually this would be the camera you face to start tracking the set up), to keep the Actor scaling more accurate throughout the recording, this would matter more in larger areas, but should be a rule of thumb setting).

It would make more sense to me to set up the cameras more square with the room, but the catty-corner set up will work too, just spin the floor grid to match the way you are facing, floor grid center point being moved to right between your ankles, when standing in dead center, and then turn off the coordinates tool and use the Actor Move tool to slide ONLY the Actor in place with you, which it should be anyway after that, then set the Actor height to your real world measured height and skeleton bone lengths according to your body, leg length to set the hips top bone joint to where your actual leg would crease at hips, then detect the proper Actor colors and IK align any limbs closer before you hit the refit button and hit the refit button a few times, not just once.

(Note: you can increase the Actor height to better match for the color detection process, but then return it to your actual height after that before refitting, then Save that Actor to file in the Actor Tab for later call back when/if needed, but always re-detect the Actor colors for every new project, as it is usually never the exact same per project).

It will take you a little while to get everything running on all cylinders, but it should fall closer into place consistently soon, as long as you remain consistent.

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:58 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
A lot to remember and follow, I understand, but it will become more clear and much easier after a while and you will know better what to always do consistently, it really only takes a few minutes to set properly once you do it more regularly, though it does get more difficult if you have to break down, or move your cameras daily, my set up is permanently affixed, so I don't even have to run a calibration for each recording session, even if days apart, I check it like once a month, or if I see it is off when I refit the Actor, or if I ever change the position of the cameras.

You should be doing a calibration before and after a session, as your set up is much more prone to getting off per session, that way you don't loose a recording due to bad calibration when finished.

No, spin the grid so the blue arrow faces the camera you are facing and your iPi Actor will snap that way once you spin it too, BUT that calibration shown looks to me to be off a bit, but hard to tell with the Actor not snapped onto the performer (you).

Remember to always set the iPi Scene light to match the direction of the most light direction, very important, has to be re-set for each new project, or if it is always from an exact direction as a camera is placed, you can use match scene light to camera button in Scene Tab, but not a very reliable way to set it, manually is always best, as even slightly off can change the tracking effects, you will get a better feel for this as you work more with the program.

(Note: squaring the floor grid isn't a requirement, but it will help you later when and if you need to use the move IK tools for any reason, it will always be square to the floor coordinates and also will match better to any 3D editors floor later when importing).

You probably should not be using Very Flex spine yet, Flex is fine for now, you need much more practice before getting that to work right, Flex will work for most motions, especially within the floor area you have now.

Remember, you can not wear shorts with PS Eyes, and the helmet is white, so head tracking ON may not track the head well, since it is close to the wall color, contrasting colors on all body parts to the background is pretty much required. Try to use a different color shirt than pants also, medium blue T shirt works well, but really any different color should work, other than white.

Hold the palms down and the Move controllers in the palms facing forward as you would hold them to use them and keep them held tight in the palms that way throughout the performance, this is very important for accurate rotations to be captured throughout.

You must be more consistent with your color choices and clothing choices, and lighting, or you are just going to be chasing your tail for each new project.

By the look of the views, your cams aren't centered yet to the performer, YOU should be closer to the middle in each view, making a center point mark on the floor with masking tape will help always identify the dead center for use with the view port grid tool, (must be turned on-off in the tools ribbon), to run the center line through that mark, then it doesn't really matter the point you start your motion, although it isn't mandatory to do this, this is helpful to keep the performer within a better specific area of the floor in all cams.

You really do not need to manually adjust the cam 1 to cam 2 spacing, just set the cam 1 height off floor accurately, the rest will, or should, automatically adjust themselves close enough. if they don't, then something went wrong in the light tracking, probably from too many misdetects in the sequence and you should maybe always end the light touching the floor at the dead center floor mark. (5 floor touches are recommended, spaced evenly).

I use 6 cams, Basic version, mostly single performer motions and I have a much larger area then you, 7 m x 4 m (L x W), cams in a rectangle-ish config., with one camera front @ 1.50 m and rear @ 1.75 m, 2 cams set higher on each side wall, 1.75 and 2.45 m spaced accordingly, but your area is so crazy cluttered, not sure you can add more cams and them being able to be positioned for a clear floor view, which is required. (You should really work on cleaning up, or at least covering some of the clutter with white sheets).
To check how the background may be interfering with the tracking, open the View panel from the top ribbon, and click the Hide Background selection, if the background is properly hidden, it will all turn mostly gray with very little interfering objects showing, just some dots on in the view port per cam is all that should be present, if not, work to correct this somehow.

(Note: at least one camera should be set at between 1.20 and 1.50 m off the floor, (usually this would be the camera you face to start tracking the set up), to keep the Actor scaling more accurate throughout the recording, this would matter more in larger areas, but should be a rule of thumb setting).

It would make more sense to me to set up the cameras more square with the room, but the catty-corner set up will work too, just spin the floor grid to match the way you are facing, floor grid center point being moved to right between your ankles, when standing in dead center, and then turn off the coordinates tool and use the Actor Move tool to slide ONLY the Actor in place with you, which it should be anyway after that, then set the Actor height to your real world measured height and skeleton bone lengths according to your body, leg length to set the hips top bone joint to where your actual leg would crease at hips, then detect the proper Actor colors and IK align any limbs closer before you hit the refit button and hit the refit button a few times, not just once.

(Note: you can increase the Actor height to better match for the color detection process, but then return it to your actual height after that before refitting, then Save that Actor to file in the Actor Tab for later call back when/if needed, but always re-detect the Actor colors for every new project, as it is usually never the exact same per project).

It will take you a little while to get everything running on all cylinders, but it should fall closer into place consistently soon, as long as you remain consistent.

...[/quote]
Attachment:
spin the floor grid square C.jpg
spin the floor grid square C.jpg [ 479.26 KiB | Viewed 843 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:21 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Pay closer attention to the Actor scale and bone length settings, not close to right in the image.

Should use a different color t shirt too, there is no distinguishable separation for the hips the way you have it, up to you though.

Tuck shirt in pants always, to get the hips/top separation clear.

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:28 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

Pay closer attention to the Actor scale and bone length settings, not close to right in the image.

Should use a different color t shirt too, there is no distinguishable separation for the hips the way you have it, up to you though.

Tuck shirt in pants always, to get the hips/top separation clear.

...

Attachment:
spin the floor grid square D.jpg
spin the floor grid square D.jpg [ 494.06 KiB | Viewed 842 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
I do understand that this extra room I have has to be cleaned upp so I will make as free space as possible Before I go on. Aftern that i will try to rearrange my cams in a properly order and as you described 1 cam in front 1 cam rear 2 cams on each side and two more accordingly to yours desciption, but i knew that is for 7x4 M . This room is 4.6 x3.7 M.

Ii red about yours lightening experiance and I will figure out how to Place and what kind of lights i need when i see my available space after cleaning up.

So ill be back and start it all over again and im very greatfull that you put me on the right way… thanks a lot !

Best regards
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:25 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Looking better, but on the image, your hips height is too high, I believe it is because the camera in front is too high, that cam should be no higher than 1.50 off the floor, this is done so your Actor scaling and bone heights will be more accurate and the refit will be easier, but actually since I see you have a bit of a belly, you may try setting it lower @ 1.20 m, so the view can see your hips better, and track your shoulders better, since you really can't have a rear camera in that small of an area, it could never be placed high enough to fit your whole body in the view, nor see the floor properly for calibrating it correctly.

For your own benefit you should get a solid color more saturated color t shirt, tighter fitting torso and sleeves will help and long enough tail to always remain tucked in throughout any motions.

Mounting the cameras may require attaching them directly to the walls with an L bracket of some sort, but they need to be attached securely, or at least to the top of a single pole stand that will reach higher, tripods can work, but not the best option for your space.

If I were to set up cameras in that space, I would change the layout to run with the length of the room, placing the front camera as far forward as possible @ 1.20-1.30 m, then 2 cameras on each side wall, about 18 inches ahead of the front cam at 2.00-2.30 m, (you need to fit the entire usable floor space, as well as the top of your head in all cameras, full arm raised extensions may not be fully possible in your space though), then 2 cameras slightly behind your center floor mark @ 2.45 m, and the 6th camera somewhere up front @ 2.45 m looking down on you for better feet tracking, a rear camera really isn't needed, nor really possible in your space.

It can be set up catty-cornered as it is, if need be, but still follow the same camera placement and heights as above, but this still won't accommodate a rear cam by seeing your space in the images, it is being blocked from viewing the floor by the bed, or whatever that is behind you.

You can flip any cameras upside-down to get a bit more height if needed and set the camera to the upside-down parameter in camera settings just for those cameras.

You are getting closer, but remember PS Eyes do not like bright light shining into their lenses and you will need some sort of dimmer lighting behind you off to each side, or those cameras will appear too dark and you really can't crank the gain up to brighten them, or it will most likely cause erratic frame drops when recording, gain should never be set above 20 on any camera if possible.

This system works best when all cameras can see a similar image brightness and clothing color, too much shadows, or color variation will affect the tracking.

It does take more attention to these details for best results and following them consistently for each recording session, I can't stress that enough.

Once you get it and understand it though, you will have it and it will be second nature to run it this way and it won't seem so complicated.

No one should really go by my results, especially not starting out, I am just suggesting better reference points, I have a completely different area than most do and I have been running this system for years now, but I will say version 4 has made it better and easier, and less tracking loss issues for me anyway, though depending on the motions it still may throw a few at me, but I know how to catch them and correct them on the fly for better end results.

Good Luck!

...


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