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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:28 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

Looking better, but on the image, your hips height is too high, I believe it is because the camera in front is too high, that cam should be no higher than 1.50 off the floor, this is done so your Actor scaling and bone heights will be more accurate and the refit will be easier, but actually since I see you have a bit of a belly, you may try setting it lower @ 1.20 m, so the view can see your hips better, and track your shoulders better, since you really can't have a rear camera in that small of an area, it could never be placed high enough to fit your whole body in the view, nor see the floor properly for calibrating it correctly.

For your own benefit you should get a solid color more saturated color t shirt, tighter fitting torso and sleeves will help and long enough tail to always remain tucked in throughout any motions.
Quote:
Thankyo Snapz ! I couldnt wait to Clean up in my extra room because i was so eager to test the cam 1 high just to fit my hips and i also find a black taiht sleeve, my pants are black blue and the sleeve are black.

In Picture one i calibrated a Little area and did manually floor markets but when a corr the cam 1 real high 1.35 M it didnt fit soo god so i didnt change the cam1 heigh at all.
Attachment:
cal cam 1 realhigh 1.35.jpg
cal cam 1 realhigh 1.35.jpg [ 327.62 KiB | Viewed 909 times ]

Attachment:
hips fitts better.jpg
hips fitts better.jpg [ 418.27 KiB | Viewed 909 times ]


Mounting the cameras may require attaching them directly to the walls with an L bracket of some sort, but they need to be attached securely, or at least to the top of a single pole stand that will reach higher, tripods can work, but not the best option for your space.

If I were to set up cameras in that space, I would change the layout to run with the length of the room, placing the front camera as far forward as possible @ 1.20-1.30 m, then 2 cameras on each side wall, about 18 inches ahead of the front cam at 2.00-2.30 m, (you need to fit the entire usable floor space, as well as the top of your head in all cameras, full arm raised extensions may not be fully possible in your space though), then 2 cameras slightly behind your center floor mark @ 2.45 m, and the 6th camera somewhere up front @ 2.45 m looking down on you for better feet tracking, a rear camera really isn't needed, nor really possible in your space.

It can be set up catty-cornered as it is, if need be, but still follow the same camera placement and heights as above, but this still won't accommodate a rear cam by seeing your space in the images, it is being blocked from viewing the floor by the bed, or whatever that is behind you.

You can flip any cameras upside-down to get a bit more height if needed and set the camera to the upside-down parameter in camera settings just for those cameras.

You are getting closer, but remember PS Eyes do not like bright light shining into their lenses and you will need some sort of dimmer lighting behind you off to each side, or those cameras will appear too dark and you really can't crank the gain up to brighten them, or it will most likely cause erratic frame drops when recording, gain should never be set above 20 on any camera if possible.

This system works best when all cameras can see a similar image brightness and clothing color, too much shadows, or color variation will affect the tracking.

It does take more attention to these details for best results and following them consistently for each recording session, I can't stress that enough.

Once you get it and understand it though, you will have it and it will be second nature to run it this way and it won't seem so complicated.

No one should really go by my results, especially not starting out, I am just suggesting better reference points, I have a completely different area than most do and I have been running this system for years now, but I will say version 4 has made it better and easier, and less tracking loss issues for me anyway, though depending on the motions it still may throw a few at me, but I know how to catch them and correct them on the fly for better end results.

Good Luck!

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:59 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

No need to re-quote all my post text, I remember what I type :)

Yes, that looks better on scale, I still think the upper legs top joint should be lowered to where your crease bend of your actual thigh is, right now it is up near your actual top of hip bone, that is not how character weighting is usually set up and the exported skeleton should match a character, iPi Actors hips too high will cause the feet to want to leave the floor on bending actions at the hips, or on outstretched leg motions... Look at the Pose Tab to see how the skeleton should appear in the scene on your body.

One camera looks very much brighter than the others, check to see all cams are pretty much equal in their settings, then a trick is to turn the auto gain OFF-ON (let cam fully self adjust for each camera)-OFF again, then leave it OFF on all cameras, and leave settings alone after that and the gain will remain more steady during recording, you should be able to use the default settings for each cam @ 120 gain and 20 exposure for now, if too dark at those settings, then you need to add more lighting.

Looks like with your helmet so big, the color caught the part that was uncovered and not the black, you can manually change the is the Actor Tab under appearance and use slider to black, or color picker to choose head black.

Room area is getting better, covering clutter will help, keep playing with things until you get a desired tracking result for some simple motions, then work your way up more advanced motions and see if tracking remains consistent... You may loose connection during tracking at some points, just stop the tracking and realign it at the point of occurrence, hit refit again and carry on, many times just a simple last good frame start and re-track will fix it, sometimes not, use the < key to move back frames easier.

Warning to all black shirt: It may loose tracking, or send arms into the body when they get close to torso during tracking, you should stick with a different color T shirt, distinguishable from the pants color, or use a different color long sleeved shirt under the T shirt, but usually plain arm color will work, but continue to use the black gloves.

I have also tried black sleeves and a blue T shirt, for a night recording under full mechanical lighting and it was ok, you just have to watch the arms closer during tracking, it does help with the arm self shadowing under mechanical lights, but I have much better lighting than you have now, actually in most cameras your view looks a bit dark, but if it seems to be tracking fine like that, then that's all that can be asked.

Upload a short tracking video to YouTube, or other site and show how the tracking looks once all post processing auto cleaning is run, with Refine and JR and Move data applied with Trajectory filter set up higher 4-5.

Looking better though, Good Luck!

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:44 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

No need to re-quote all my post text, I remember what I type :)

Yes, that looks better on scale, I still think the upper legs top joint should be lowered to where your crease bend of your actual thigh is, right now it is up near your actual top of hip bone, that is not how character weighting is usually set up and the exported skeleton should match a character, iPi Actors hips too high will cause the feet to want to leave the floor on bending actions at the hips, or on outstretched leg motions... Look at the Pose Tab to see how the skeleton should appear in the scene on your body.
Quote:
Thankyou Snapz ! Yes i did understand that there were something wrong with my figure because it didnt behave naturally and I saw this outstreched leg motions. So I will take a few hours on this upper legs top joint of hip bone and test untill it works.


One camera looks very much brighter than the others, check to see all cams are pretty much equal in their settings, then a trick is to turn the auto gain OFF-ON (let cam fully self adjust for each camera)-OFF again, then leave it OFF on all cameras, and leave settings alone after that and the gain will remain more steady during recording, you should be able to use the default settings for each cam @ 120 gain and 20 exposure for now, if too dark at those settings, then you need to add more lighting.
Quote:
Yes I saw that and i will do exactly as you described


Looks like with your helmet so big, the color caught the part that was uncovered and not the black, you can manually change the is the Actor Tab under appearance and use slider to black, or color picker to choose head black.
Quote:
Yes i will do


Room area is getting better, covering clutter will help, keep playing with things until you get a desired tracking result for some simple motions, then work your way up more advanced motions and see if tracking remains consistent... You may loose connection during tracking at some points, just stop the tracking and realign it at the point of occurrence, hit refit again and carry on, many times just a simple last good frame start and re-track will fix it, sometimes not, use the < key to move back frames easier.
Quote:
Thats just what I needed , i red the ipisoft newest doc but i didnt understand, thankyou again Snapz !


Warning to all black shirt: It may loose tracking, or send arms into the body when they get close to torso during tracking, you should stick with a different color T shirt, distinguishable from the pants color, or use a different color long sleeved shirt under the T shirt, but usually plain arm color will work, but continue to use the black gloves.
Quote:
didnt find a suitable colored shirt so i will buy one tomrrow.. mey bee a green ?


I have also tried black sleeves and a blue T shirt, for a night recording under full mechanical lighting and it was ok, you just have to watch the arms closer during tracking, it does help with the arm self shadowing under mechanical lights, but I have much better lighting than you have now, actually in most cameras your view looks a bit dark, but if it seems to be tracking fine like that, then that's all that can be asked.

Upload a short tracking video to YouTube, or other site and show how the tracking looks once all post processing auto cleaning is run, with Refine and JR and Move data applied with Trajectory filter set up higher 4-5.
Quote:
with pleasure.. it might take a little while but now i will put all time available (24 hrs) to make this looking good.


Looking better though, Good Luck!
Quote:
Thankyou Snapz and I will do my best...
Best regards funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:06 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Good, I am glad you are understanding what I am trying to convey, all these things make a big difference in tracking quality, consistency is the main part.

Remember the iPi Scene light must be set for each new project to where the strongest point of light is coming from in the videos, very important.

You seem to want to hold the Move controllers wrong, they should follow the palm and face more forward and be held tight to remain in that position during recordings, when they come into iPi for tracking, you use the Move tool to rotate them, horizontally only, to match the video position better before applying the data, after that to adjust the rotations, you just rotate the hand bone only, not the Move instance.

Green shirt should work, though I have personally never tested it, just maybe not bright lime green due to catching of more shadows, maybe a medium green, but not too dark to maintain the contrast between the pants for the hips separation.

You may and probably will experience issues I don't, each users experience is different for many reasons, but eventually you will figure out what needs to be done to achieve a very usable animation rather quickly, without a great deal of post processing clean up, and if you don't think post clean up matters, just assess the time time it would take you to clean up poor, or most real-time animation captures, then compare it to the time it takes you to run the full processing with iPi, and one other thing, after export you can view the animation, either fbx with character attached, or bvh only skeleton animations in a free program called FBX Review from Autodesk, and see if any pre cleaning needs more attention, then just return to iPi Studio and easily fix those areas just within the minimized ROI they occurred, very handy, that can't be done with most lower cost real-time solutions, you get what you get and on export have to clean it all up manually with your preferred 3D editing package.

Don't get things wrong, ALL mocap needs clean up, but iPi for me does limit it in post better with PS Eyes tracking, not the same effect with use of Kinect v1, or v2.

Usually what you see in the iPi view port, is what will be transferred on export to almost any 3D editing package I have tried so far, so a little more time in iPi will save loads of time later in post editing, and a lot of it is able to be done practically automatically within iPi Studio with their integral tools, so practice using them all.

iPi Docs are a minimum explanation to get users up and running, they offer some tips to help the process, but nothing can compare to real world use experience and adjusting things to better work.

One other important thing: You can adjust limbs during the tracking process and hit the refit to better align things, (A quick replay after tarcking only may show these areas better and fix them at that point), but try not to re-press the Refit button after you have run the Refine process, it will reset all the frames to default and you don't want that, all you need to do if there is a manual, or re-tracking issue to be done, just re-run the track forward, or backwards, either way, not both ways unless you want to, (you don't need to zoom the ROI to this area either to do this), then advance the time head to a point just before, or after the area you re-tracked and start the Refine process again and it will blend right back into properly to the prior animation, but you may need to go to a good frame just before, or after the repair and re-apply the Moves data, if you applied it before you even ran the Refine process, if not, then no big deal, just be sure the Move data is ALWAYS the last step run with the proper hand bone positioning before in-scene playback, or exporting.

You can use the ROI zoomed to a specific area later if needed for later corrections, this is a bit more advanced in the proper execution to look good, so just practice getting a fairly good first pass processing to work well for now.

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:32 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...


Yes, that looks better on scale, I still think the upper legs top joint should be lowered to where your crease bend of your actual thigh is, right now it is up near your actual top of hip bone, that is not how character weighting is usually set up and the exported skeleton should match a character, iPi Actors hips too high will cause the feet to want to leave the floor on bending actions at the hips, or on outstretched leg motions... Look at the Pose Tab to see how the skeleton should appear in the scene on your body.
Quote:
Ive tried to high left high and right high, but im unsure if i may do it with the "move" or scale...and im a also a Little unsure where my left and right tigh is in my body..i will try to figure out…
Attachment:
left right ttight up and collor corr.jpg
left right ttight up and collor corr.jpg [ 413.05 KiB | Viewed 902 times ]



Looks like with your helmet so big, the color caught the part that was uncovered and not the black, you can manually change the is the Actor Tab under appearance and use slider to black, or color picker to choose head black.
Quote:
Yes i did manually by the pointer and thats changed it all eg my hair is now black beacause i pointed on the black area on my covered helmett. And after that...just a big differense in the tracking process...it follows much better….so i will go on reading yours instructions and I be back...
best regards funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:38 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

You don't use the Move tool to adjust the hips position, use only the Actor legs bone scaler, then hit refit again, adjust more if necessary and hit refit until in proper location on the video, you will also have to adjust the arms length in unison to match, but once have it, Save that Actor parameters to file.

Thigh bone top joint of the iPi skeleton should fall close to the crease in your body between the hips and middle thighs, this is the bend point of almost any human 3D character and the only way iPi will track properly, or you will experience leg, hip and feet issues.

I am not sure you are tracking with head ON, but without it ON can also cause tracking issues with many other bones.

Using the Stiff spine setting can also cause some issues with PS Eyes tracking, so best to right now just use the Flex setting.

...


Last edited by Snapz on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:51 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

You don't use the Move tool to adjust the hips position, use only the Actor legs bone scaler, then hit refit again, adjust more if necessary and hit refit until in proper location on the video.
Quote:
Thank you thats just what i needed.


Thigh bone top joint of the iPi skeleton should fall close to the crease in you body between the hips and thighs, this is the bend point of almost any human 3D character and the only way iPi will track properly, or you will experience leg, hip and feet issues.
Quote:
Okay i will try figure out where the crease is situated between hips and thights


I am not sure you are tracking with head ON, but without it ON can also cause tracking issues with many other bones.
Quote:
It has been OFF but now i will track with head on avoiding tracking issues


Using the Stiff spine setting can also cause some issues with PS Eyes tracking, so best to right now just use the Flex setting.
Quote:
its the one in the middle...


...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:57 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Since you are using a head Move I guess, perfect head tracking while tracking isn't extremely critical, just let it track as it wants too, but it should follow fairly close to the video, if it is way off, then something is wrong and needs to be looked into for why.

Yes, middle spine selection if Flex Spine.

Just test different hip placement of leg scale, you will find a good position to work with the video throughout.

Also, your real world actual height should be set no more then 2 cm either way, but should really be your actual height, if calibration was done correctly using the accurate measured cam 1 height off the floor, but in my situation, the iPi calibration is always 1-2 cm off, so I set my cam 1 cm lower than actual measured cam 1 height, but not necessary, I just feel it works better for me and the floor contact for the toes.

You are only into the testing phase right now, to work things out, preciseness will come later, but soon :)

...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:07 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

Since you are using a head Move I guess, perfect head tracking while tracking isn't extremely critical, just let it track as it wants too, but it should follow fairly close to the video, if it is way off, then something is wrong and needs to be looked into for why.
Quote:
Attachment:
head on look ceiling.jpg
head on look ceiling.jpg [ 386.46 KiB | Viewed 901 times ]


Yes, middle spine selection if Flex Spine.

Just test different hip placement of leg scale, you will find a good position to work with the video throughout.

Also, your real world actual height should be set no more then 2 cm either way, but should really be your actual height, if calibration was done correctly using the accurate measured cam 1 height off the floor.
Quote:
..going back and check the cal file ..btw were do i set my real high..may i forgot..if so im sorry...


You are only into the testing phase right now, to work things out, preciseness will come later, but soon :)
Quote:
Just what i wanted to hear and i feel i will doing better and better..


...


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:18 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Real height in Cal file is the cam 1 off floor height setting, the rest will fall where needed, very close, or should anyway.

You can set Actor height when opening the project, or in the Actor tab with the height slider.

Changing the hip bone height shouldn't really affect you overall body height, but if you feel it does, just increase the overall actor height 1 cm or so.

You are looking for the heels of the iPi Actor to almost touch the floor on refit, they should be up off the floor, as they will settle in once tracking starts, but not a tippy toe look, just slightly off, you can check this by selecting the hips of the iPi Actor, then holding the Ctrl key and spin the scene 90 degrees to view it better, then just click cam 1 to reset the scene.

Head is looking up because it is trying to reach the black color, but the helmet area the head is on is whitish, so pull the hat to cover the whole helmet next time.

I would really suggest a better head device to hold the Move, but for now it is what you have, you can probably just pull the knit cap down snug right over the Move on your head and it will stay in place fairly well for testing purposes, as long as it doesn't move around under the cap while performing, which it shouldn't if cap is tight enough and look for a better head mount, or at least paint that helmet a darker color, darker colors work better than lighter colors with iPi.

I realize all this may sound confusing to you right now, but it will all come into focus and be second nature when setting up the scene eventually.

Once you have the correctly set up Actor saved, all you have to do is re-detect the actor colors for each project, the rest should remain the same, that is if the rest of the parameters are correct from the beginning.

...


Last edited by Snapz on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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