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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
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Not even sure $6k would get you up and running with Xsense, it's $5k a year just to buy the software, then $5k a year to update the software license I believe, but that is a completely more professional studio configuration and of course much more freedom of movement and real-time with high accuracy, add a few more high dollars to get full finger tracking, too rich for me.

They do have the Indie program now, which gets you the software for 1 year, but after that you would be on your own for updating license.

iPi won't get you that precise, but correct, for the price comparison it works well within a set area, but only if it is set up correctly, this is one reason may users give up on it with PS Eyes, it is a bit daunting as you see just from what I have explained here, but if you can set it up and leave it set up, it becomes much easier to use.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

Not even sure $6k would get you up and running with Xsense, it's $5k a year just to buy the software, then $5k a year to update the software license I believe, but that is a completely more professional studio configuration and of course much more freedom of movement and real-time with high accuracy, add a few more high dollars to get full finger tracking, too rich for me.

They do have the Indie program now, which gets you the software for 1 year, but after that you would be on your own for updating license.

iPi won't get you that precise, but correct, for the price comparison it works well within a set area, but only if it is set up correctly, this is one reason may users give up on it with PS Eyes, it is a bit daunting as you see just from what I have explained here, but if you can set it up and leave it set up, it becomes much easier to use.

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Thankyou Snapz !
Well with a teacher like you.. i Think anybody could manage to handle a proper setup..and making this ipisoft system work just great. But as you said, people often gives up..
Well that kind of person who " never give up" the only thing you need is time and lots of exercices…… and im on my way.. :-)

Today I will go back and read our conversation from the beginning ...adding yours comments to a proper workflow..and then there are a few things i dont understand just now...but in the end of the day i maybee do :-)

Just started Cleaning up and rearrange cameras… and then I do a proper calibration.. and if it fits... held all the cameras in that position.... after my cup off cofea..in my hand just now...ill go on...

All the best
funwithps3


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:17 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

OK, glad it helped, and yes, read through it, it is pretty much laid out in the stages needed, though it may be out of direct order, as it is much easier for me to explain, than to have someone understand it, just take your time and try to make everything be as stable of a set up as possible and organized well.

Let us know how the ball cap head Move mount works out, if that's how you choose to mount it.

The program does take a little while to get used to and operate efficiently, but it is basically repetitious steps for each project once you get a stable set up working.

Any questions, feel free to post them... Good Luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:22 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
Snapz wrote:
...

OK, glad it helped, and yes, read through it, it is pretty much laid out in the stages needed, though it may be out of direct order, as it is much easier for me to explain, than to have someone understand it, just take your time and try to make everything be as stable of a set up as possible and organized well.

Let us know how the ball cap head Move mount works out, if that's how you choose to mount it.

The program does take a little while to get used to and operate efficiently, but it is basically repetitious steps for each project once you get a stable set up working.

Any questions, feel free to post them... Good Luck!

...

Thankyou Snapz !
Due to my usb3 ext Cables (3m) was delayed ( will get them tomorrow ) i was not able to rearrange my ps3 cams today, but i find out that i earlier didnt Count my bodies heigh including helmett.. and it just didnt fit.. but now it works like charm .and i marked a bigger Square on my floor, so after cal my figure just snapped in..Lovely :-)

In this monday fifth first exercise I used the head ON...and the refin Went just fine and then the jitter process...with all body parts putted on 5 and jitter max smooth to the right.

Well i forgot to fix cam 2 its to lighten .. my helmett will be removed and a sleev shirt medium green il fix asap… i aslo tried the older alg tracker….

Here we go;
Attachment:
360 degr head on.jpg
360 degr head on.jpg [ 489.43 KiB | Viewed 1236 times ]

Attachment:
cam 2 failed to lighten.jpg
cam 2 failed to lighten.jpg [ 364.7 KiB | Viewed 1236 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:50 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
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Can cam 2, (back right cam when standing in position), be moved back away from the Actor and up any? It seems a little bottle-necked on its view, actually re check all cams alignment, some seem more off centered to the Actor than others.

Your light can not go outside of the camera view port when moving it, it MUST remain visible to all cameras at ALL times, that's why it failed, not so much due to the camera brightness, just wayyy too many mis-detects, since you have such a small area, choose a position where your body isn't blocking any cams views and stay there and just reach your arm out with the light, even if you have to stretch a bit to reach out, the light will still remain visible to all cams, seems you are getting your body in the way and occluding the light and of course going outside the cameras views is the main thing wrong.

You shouldn't need to use the old algorithm, especially using High Res speed, but you do need to get your lights set in better locations out of direct view of the camera lenses.

You are getting there, keep tweaking things better, the cam heights look fine and the Actor is fitting better, it should track ok with the all dark clothes for basic test motions anyway, even a 360 turn.

Leg bone length still looks a little long to me, the crease I mean is between the lower hips and thighs, not between the stomach and hips, refer to the Pose Tab skeleton view.

Too long of leg bone length will cause hip pushing out on bends and squats.

Keep at it, looking better though and with different hat and color shirt will help and still may not be holding the hand Moves right after all, by the look of the block, when you hold them and hands to your sides, they should remain in that position, even in the T pose, looks like you keep wanting to point them with the forearm, that is incorrect for holding them, if they were mounted to gloves in that position, then they would remain in that position, but since holding them, they need to follow the palm grip from the start.

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Last edited by Snapz on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:17 am, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:04 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
Here's a pic of the new helmet.

Attachment:
NewMocapHelme_sml.jpg
NewMocapHelme_sml.jpg [ 47.95 KiB | Viewed 1233 times ]


I didn't get a chance to try it out (cleaning and organizing the studio is taking longer than planned,) but this one seems to fit better than the old bike helmet and the hardhat. It looks cooler too. The only thing I'm a little concerned with is the shininess but we'll see. I usually shoot at home late in the evening so this might not be an issue. If it does become a problem, I can spray it with a matte finish.

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Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:40 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
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I figured you would have tried stripping down a move by now G...

I guess whatever works is fine, that would just be way too bulky for my liking, especially if another performer has to wear it.

I am guessing you have never tried just a head wrap with the cased Move attached over the ear, I wish I could test it, but all my Moves are stripped down now and I threw all the extra parts away.

The curve in the Move case should fit snugly against the head and brace itself securely, even on more extreme actions, you could even cut a small square out of a plastic soda bottle to use as an inside back plate for more rigidity.

The ball cap, unless has an adjustable back strap to make it more snug may be less secure, but if it can be adjusted tighter, should work the same.

The Move doesn't weight a lot, even in the case, it just makes it bulkier for hand ergonomics.

Looks like a good safe, stable configuration though.

BTW.. I don't know if you tested those 2 Moves you just got, but if you have, did they have magnetometers?

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Los Angeles
I considered stripping the Moves down a long time ago but decided I like keeping the units the way they are for other uses. Just a personal preference.

Other methods I thought about: GoPro style strap and martial arts head gear. With GoPro strap, I couldn't figure out a good way to fix the Move without some jiggling or slipping (unless I stripped it down of course.) The martial arts head gear might have worked well. I did order a cheap one a while back but the size I got was too small so I sent it back. I never bothered ordering a larger one.

The new bike helmet (the blue one) was an impulse buy: when I saw it in the store, it was cheap and seemed like it would work. As it turned out, yeah the Move sits on it like it was made for it...no customization needed, just add small foam pad and velcro strap. The helmet's chinstrap holds the helmet in place without constraining the jaw (i.e., more comfortable than the hard hat with a rigid strap,) and there is a dial inside to tighten how it fits around the skull. It sits very firmly and the Move stays steadily locked to the head rotation. It's also very light since it's basically just styrofoam, and it's less bulky than my other bike helmet.

So, yeah, I agree the helmet setup is bulkier than stripping down a Move to its essentials, but it works for me and I don't really find it to be a hindrance.

For hands, I don't mind gripping them since iPi's not recording fingers anyway. The trick, of course, it so grip them firmly without affecting my natural wrist rotations. It takes practice to make this look natural but it's not a big deal if you can visualize the motions like when you're pantomiming.

It does become a problem for random performers who aren't familiar with these little details. For fun, a while back I did a session to record 'zombie' motions at a vfx studio, and all the fx artists wanted to participate. It was fun the crew but, but for me, since I was going to be tracking the stuff, it was watching a disaster because I kept seeing avoidable things happening hat I knew was going to error like crazy. In the end, only some of the footage was actually usable. Oh well. :P

Like anything, I believe mocap acting is a skill that needs to be developed and practiced. When I was with Rhythm & Hues, we often used professional mocap studios for our data, and they would cast actors who specialized in mocap performance. When you see the really good actors in action, you definitely notice their skill. They have a solid understanding of the technology and what works and doesn't work, and they perform to the strengths of the system.

With iPi Mocap Studio, I think it's no different. The performer needs to understand how it captures (RGB or depth) data and perform to its strengths to get the best results.

_________________
Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Demo Reel (2017) | Demo Reel (2015) | Demo Reel (2013)

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Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


Last edited by Greenlaw on Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:38 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:04 am
Posts: 53
[
Quote:

If I were to set up cameras in that space, I would change the layout to run with the length of the room, placing the front camera as far forward as possible @ 1.20-1.30 m, then 2 cameras on each side wall, about 18 inches ahead of the front cam at 2.00-2.30 m, (you need to fit the entire usable floor space, as well as the top of your head in all cameras, full arm raised extensions may not be fully possible in your space though), then 2 cameras slightly behind your center floor mark @ 2.45 m, and the 6th camera somewhere up front @ 2.45 m looking down on you for better feet tracking, a rear camera really isn't needed, nor really possible in your space.
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 Post subject: Re: Setting up ps3 mover
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:48 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Yes, I agree G, the performance needs to match the character and experience helps in any situation, that is why using professional dancers made things work much better than just some girls from a bar lol luckily they were all supplied by the dance studio and took direction well.

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