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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:01 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:44 am
Posts: 36
Location: Copenhagen
Good to hear that ipi soft is the right solution for me (or so it seems) i must admit i saw those perception neurons and thought that they looked almost too good to be true and for a moment had some doubts if ipi soft solution would be the right path to take, but i think it will prove to be a nice solution. And yes weather suxx hehe.. About the ping pong ball.. I bought a pack today and they actually seem to absorb quite a lot more of the light than i expected.. I will have to make a calibration test to see if it is dimming the light too much.. Otherwise i may too be on the outlook for a plastic cap of some sort :-)

Since im in the learning process i might try different items and post results later..


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2423
Location: Los Angeles
Jonas_molgaard wrote:
In the meantime i went over my bills for this hobby project...

Tell me about it. :)

I went way over my budget for personal projects this year by upgrading my gear for multi-Kinect 2 (four sets) and, as it turned out, I can't use all the gear I bought yet. I probably should have stayed with multi-Kinect v1 for the time being because upgrading to v2 also meant upgrading several computer systems. This set me back a lot, not just financially but it cost me a lot of time too.

I don't regret it though...my main workstation really did need an upgrade and right now I am able to run a dual Kinect 2 system for our film projects and it works great! Setup time may take slightly longer than with my previous gear, and tracking the higher res data takes a bit longer, but the overall quality is definitely much better. In hindsight, I didn't need to spend as much money as I did but I'm really quite pleased with my new system. Technically, I can use up to four Kinect 2 sensors when my wife and daughter allow me to use their computers but unless I'm capturing multiple actors at the same time, I'm not sure there's a lot of reason to use more than two v2 sensors. (That's to be determined--I really haven't used 3 Kinect sensors enough yet to be sure.)

Anyway, while I'm a big fan of the multi-Kinect configuration, I don't think this system will be suitable for your needs. The sensors have a fairly limited range and it looks like you need to cover a fairly large area. However, even if you only have a single Kinect, I would hold on to it. Kinect is useful for other things like face tracking and object scanning.

G.

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Last edited by Greenlaw on Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

True, there are other uses for the Kinect v2, so if you don't need to get rid of it, just hang on to it, but if you have to you have to, you can always get a used one later, they are always for sale cheaper online now, just hang onto the adapter if possible.

...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:44 am
Posts: 36
Location: Copenhagen
Good info there G. I'll definetely hold on to it for a while S.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:44 am
Posts: 36
Location: Copenhagen
I've made a small video of the location that i plan on using. Check it out and let me know if you see any problems with this (aside of the things i already mention).

I plan on wearing blue jeans, either a black or dark-purple longsleeved shirt (im not sure about the short sleved t-shirt over yet... gotta make some tests too with that, but need to pick a good color for that). And for feet i will be painting some climbing shoes black all over. About using gloves, i haven't decided if or not i will use them, or what color to pick based on the environment colors.

Anyway, here's a link to the location scopeout :-)
https://youtu.be/mRgoSvM9ErU


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:47 am
Posts: 897
Location: Florida USA
...

Videos helps show actual wall, but there are no climbing protrusions on it yet I see, and you will have to position 2 cameras to better view the inset portion, as you probably figured.

The PS Eyes use the wide angle setting, different from the video camera used in the video, so Eyes can most likely be positioned a little closer to the wall, enough just to see the ground about 1m-2m in front of the wall and as high on the wall as it will show, the closer you can position the Eyes to the performer, the better the tracking will be, as your actor will look bigger, you will get a feel for this as you set the cams, but try to contain just the wall in the cameras views, as you won't want to show areas you won't be climbing on.

The way that wall has a jaunt in it, might require 2 cameras above looking down rotated just a bit to look at the same center point on the ground, which should have a ground center mark for best camera positioning view reference.

As for gloves, I would wear them, any solid contrasting color will work, as the wall color and possibly the grabs will be too close to the skin color of the hand and loose tracking more frequently most likely, but not easily known, unless you are tracking videos right after the filming process on-scene also, it would be a shame to get home and find the tracking loss to be awful for the hands causing extensive clean up, you know?

One other thing I have found, (if you decide to use gloves), is to use a colored duct tape, or similar, that matches the glove color and wrap the forearm a bit higher above the wrist bend, since you aren't using Move controllers this helps the tracker to keep the hand color in view during extreme wrist bends during tracking, as the wrists stay straight during this processing, if the tracker looses the color of the hands while tracking, it will fling them off, even if the forearm color is in plain view the whole time and on the long sleeve length parameter of the actor, set the hand color to also go above the wrist bend a bit more.

The use of the T-shirt over the long sleeve is basically to separate the shoulder bone tracking from the arm tracking, especially if the moves you do will be extreme, but you can try with just long sleeve, I know when I tried just a long sleeve, I didn't like the shoulder tracking, especially on body rotations, the shoulder clashed with upper body and caused hangs in the tracking.

Top camera should follow the wall angle, not just look straight down to the ground from above, and not too far out from the wall, you are using this camera as the inner body tracker to keep the body depth distance off the wall more accurate, as long as the light marker is always visible/tracked during calibration.

A single camera doesn't need to always see a body part on the video plane, as long as at least one, or more other cameras can see the body part on the video plane it will still track it, as long as the calibration process correctly detects all cameras.

Solid proper calibration is very important for best tracking results! Best to do a calibration before and after the session, once you get cameras where they will stay, any camera changes during the session will require a re-calibration and background evaluation.

If you are going to attempt to set up on the walls inside at anytime, you will of course have to adjust camera positioning to better fit those wall angles.

I am really interested in seeing your tracked outcomes... Good Luck!

...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:22 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2423
Location: Los Angeles
Jonas_molgaard wrote:
a black or dark-purple longsleeved shirt (im not sure about the short sleved t-shirt over yet... gotta make some tests too with that, but need to pick a good color for that).

Normally, you would go the other way--black short sleeve T-shirt and bright long sleeve shirt underneath. You want mocap studio to be able to see the arms clearly. Making them black is likely to make the arms occluded by shadow, especially if you are planning to not wear a light/bright short T-shirt to give the arms contrast against the body. Seeing how the torso bends is not as critical as seeing how the arms rotate bend because the arms can move a lot less predictably than the torso.

As stated earlier, the key to getting good data with video based capture, is contrast. Unlike Kinect, video does not contain any depth data so visibility and limbs clarity is extremely important.

Black sleeves against a black torso is definitely just going to hide your arms from Mocap Studio--with black arms against black boday and with black cast shadows as well, the software may have a difficult time separating your arms from the body. If any parts of the wall is black or in shadow, that makes it even more difficult.

Preferably, you should have a brighter long sleeve shirt and a black short sleeve shirt. The color of the long sleeve shirt doesn't matter as long as it contrasts with the black short sleeved shirt and the background.

When your choosing your clothing, think about what the software is looking at for good capture. Capturing accurate motion under the best of conditions can sometimes be tricky so avoid making it more difficult than necessary.

G.

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Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | My Demo Reels (2013,) (2015,) (2017,) and (2019)
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Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:06 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:44 am
Posts: 36
Location: Copenhagen
Thanks for the tips both. And for the lighter colored long-sleeved shirt... it makes better sense to me now. Thanks for pointing that out.

Also good with the wrist tip... i'll definetely remember that if it turns out to be too difficult.

Right now the weather is close to 0 degrees celcius, so it's way too cold to make any attempts outside, so unfortunately i have to put my project on hold for probably a month or so until it gets just a tad warmer, then i'll continue making some tests just to see how i can position cameras. I'll make sure to update with videos on it as i progress.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:44 am
Posts: 36
Location: Copenhagen
Alright, so it finally got warm enough to do a test recording at Copenhagen Boulders. So i've shot a few videos showing the setup i've made. See also the calibrationvideo and an unmodified raw tracking of an action recording.

Scene setup summary 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-VqzcGKVU
Scene setup summary 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xDPkrh371U
Calibration video https://youtu.be/McNyM1bMdps
Raw Action video https://youtu.be/0ZHSXMLwCf4 (no refits, one jitter correction)

I'll post more videos on the cleanup process later on my channel, so if this has any interrest, check out my youtube channel.


Last edited by Jonas_molgaard on Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2423
Location: Los Angeles
Wow, that setup looks really impressive Jonas.

Good luck! I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out. :)

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Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | My Demo Reels (2013,) (2015,) (2017,) and (2019)
Image
Watch a one minute excerpt on Vimeo now!


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