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 Post subject: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:00 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
Hey,
I would like to know if my ps move is any good for IPI.
From reading the forums i understand that the newer ones are faster, and the older ones have magnetometer chip. but what is better? how to use correctly the ones I have?

Using this pair, it's like they are not giving any motion data. after I match them with a camera, they stay match for about 3 secs of animation before disorienting completely. (they work good on the record screen, I even got Bluetooth antennas)

Windows 10
rtx 2070
TR2950x
all devices using the documentation recommended USB extension cards (one usb controller per device)


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 Post subject: Re: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:52 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
is there a way to rotate on more axis?


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 Post subject: Re: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:36 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2317
Location: Moscow, Russia
From our experience, PS4 Moves (CECH-ZCM2x model) perform not worse than the old model with a magnetometer (not saying about old ones without it). So we recommend using them, and they are easier to find apparently.
About your issue with motion data. Did you calibrate the controller in Recorder? Did you apply motion data in Mocap Studio after matching with a camera?
There is no need to rotate a controller in Mocap Studio around horizontal axes. Because those angles are well determined by accelerometer measures due to the gravity force. The only uncertain value is the angle around the vertical axis hence it can be adjusted manually.


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 Post subject: Re: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:03 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
vmaslov wrote:
From our experience, PS4 Moves (CECH-ZCM2x model) perform not worse than the old model with a magnetometer (not saying about old ones without it). So we recommend using them, and they are easier to find apparently.
About your issue with motion data. Did you calibrate the controller in Recorder? Did you apply motion data in Mocap Studio after matching with a camera?
There is no need to rotate a controller in Mocap Studio around horizontal axes. Because those angles are well determined by accelerometer measures due to the gravity force. The only uncertain value is the angle around the vertical axis hence it can be adjusted manually.


Thank you.
I managed to get "ok" results by :

- turning most of my room white
- black cloths
- blue sleeves

1) if ill ware red/green gloves will it help the tracker with my hands? (and match the colors in studio ofc)

I did the recommended pipeline, and using a tip I read on the forum:
- calibrate everything in the recorder (with strong BT antennas)
- track the video
- fix some tracking manually with Rift pose and re-track
- match PS move to a camera when aiming in the video
- fix rotations if needed
- apply motion data
- refine

2) is that a good way to do it?
3) Is it known that sometimes refine give a less good result or its a problem with my scene?
4) better RGB camera will result in better tracking ? like C922
5) what is the "standard" grip in calibration? I could not understand why it is needed
6) what will happen if I will hold the ps move in my hand instead of tie it to the back of my hand like now? it will rotate the hand unnaturally?

Thank you for your support!


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 Post subject: Re: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:14 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2317
Location: Moscow, Russia
Quote:
1) if ill ware red/green gloves will it help the tracker with my hands? (and match the colors in studio ofc)

It may help in tracking arm poses, but not with hands as hand orientations are not tracked optically.

Quote:
2) is that a good way to do it?

It is better to do all motion controller related stuff in the end. Otherwise orientations produced by applying motion data may be spoiled. See recommended workflow in the docs:
http://docs.ipisoft.com/Motion_Controllers#Recommended_Workflow

Quote:
3) Is it known that sometimes refine give a less good result or its a problem with my scene?

Usually it improves the result when a pose is good visible. However, the tracking (and refine) algorithm uses stochastic optimizations so results may vary slightly each run and in rare cases get to a worse outcome.
You may share a video with that issue so I could look at it in more detail.

Quote:
4) better RGB camera will result in better tracking ? like C922

Not necessarily. If the quality of the picture is good then no need to look for a better camera. By good picture quality I mean the lack of substantial graininess and motion blur. If you experience such issues the probably can be mitigated by making the lighting of a scene more bright.

Quote:
5) what is the "standard" grip in calibration? I could not understand why it is needed
6) what will happen if I will hold the ps move in my hand instead of tie it to the back of my hand like now? it will rotate the hand unnaturally?

The picture of a standard grip is shown in the docs. It is not required actually to get correct motion data. But it allows to get a natural placement for props like the sword or the pistol in Mocap Studio. If you are not interested in looking at props in Mocap Studio, only at hand rotations then you are free to hold a motion controller as you wish (or attach it to the back of a hand). Just keep in mind that regions of a video with different grips (position of a controller relative to a hand) should be processed separately.
I updated the docs to make this more clear.
http://docs.ipisoft.com/Motion_Controllers#Tips_on_action_video


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 Post subject: Re: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:59 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:26 pm
Posts: 22
Thank you for all the detailed answers,

About 6,

I do hold a sword, is it better to hold the PS move like a sword handle or attach it to the back of my hand as I did? Is there a "prop" object/property in the studio that I need to use?


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 Post subject: Re: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:12 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2418
Location: Los Angeles
It really doesn't matter so long as the device stays 'locked' to the hand as it rotates.

In my case, I hold it 'like a sword' and most importantly, I keep the grip firm while keeping my wrist 'relaxed' to move naturally. The reason for the firm grip is that you don't want the device to add unwanted rotation inside your grip. It's a trick but definitely doable with practice. The reason I prefer this method is I like being able to remote control iPi Recorder using the buttons on the device.

If you have difficulty holding the controller and performing naturally, then attaching the device to the back of the hand or strapping it firmly in the palm will work. You will need to modify a glove or a strap, and figure out how to firmly attach the device. (Once again, the key word here is 'firm'.)

I've attached the whole device to the back of my hand before, and there is a trick for that too. The problem with attaching it directly to the back of the hand is that the device hits the 'topside' of the forearm when the hand is tilted up. My solution was to sew a foam riser to a fingerless workout glove, and strap the device on top of the riser. This allows it to clear the forearm.

Some users with dismantle the device to make is smaller. This makes it easier to attach to a glove.

FWIW, I decided I was fine with just holding the device, so I don't bother with the glove approach. Once again, the key is way to 'lock' the device firmly, whether that's with a strap or by gripping.

BTW, for head rotation capture, I do use a bicycle helmet with a small foam riser under the device. Here's a picture of it...

http://forum.ipisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10114&hilit=helmet#p22940

Before I made this, I used to use a hard hat. This also worked well, but I find the chin strap for the bike helmet is more stable and comfortable. Plus, the bike helmet looks way cooler. :)

Here's a pic of the hardhat rig...

https://littlegreendog.com/2013/04/19/mocap-helmet-update/

And an older version of a bicycle hat rig...

https://littlegreendog.com/2013/04/10/one-way-to-turn-a-head/

Note the foam pad under the device. Use a dense rubber foam for risers, not a soft spongey one. This helps the device conform to curved surfaces (like a helmet or the back of a glove,) and rest without bouncing or swinging. The thick rubber foam used for gym tiles is a good example; just buy a tile and cut a piece from that.

I also have a Go Pro head band I've been meaning to try for head capture. It should work...maybe I'll try that today.

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 Post subject: Re: PS3 move or ps4?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:11 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2317
Location: Moscow, Russia
amitr wrote:
I do hold a sword, is it better to hold the PS move like a sword handle or attach it to the back of my hand as I did? Is there a "prop" object/property in the studio that I need to use?

If you want to capture sword movements then I believe holding PS Move in a hand will allow to get more natural result. To view a motion controller as a sword or a pistol in Mocap Studio select needed model for that controller on 'Motion Controllers' tab.


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