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 Post subject: LightWave3D I/O Support
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:28 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 25
Hi.
I would like to see LWO import and LWO/LWS export directly in ipisoft DMC. This really shouldn't be too rough to implement as the LWS format is human readable text and the LWO file format is well documented in the LW SDK and on the net.
I know that you support FBX, but frankly I would rather see it happen via direct format i/o instead of an intermediate hoop jump.

While I am currently checking out the Trial and I'm very pleased with the capture results thus far using 2 kinects, I'm on the fence for purchase because of a lack of direct LW support.
How about it guys?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2423
Location: Los Angeles
Hi Kat,

Good to see you here. It seems like more and more Lightwave people are popping in lately. :)

That would be cool if iPi could import/export a .lws directly, though realistically I'm not sure that would give the user that much advantage over using FBX with Lightwave 10.1. Maybe if iPi Studio could preserve intact all of the .lws and .lwo data, including Lightwave's non-explicit weighting, controls, and all shading properties. Now, if it could deal with the annoying weight offset issue with Lightwave Joints then I'd be all for it, but I think Lightwave is the only program that does it that way. (I currently have to correct this issue with my joint-based Lighwave rigs in Maya before using the rig in other apps.)

Anyway, once I set up a compatible rig out of LW, I'm finding that FBX works simply and elegantly with Lightwave (10.1) because I'm only interested in getting the motion data from iPi into LW, not an entire rig/object into LW. It's actually very easy to import just the motion data from an FBX (via LFS - Merge Only Motion Envelopes) directly to your existing rigged character in Lightwave, and not worry about moving all the other scene/object specific stuff back into LW in its original form. (Well, okay, in my case I'm actually going .bvh out of iPi DMC to Motion Builder for retargeting and editing, and then FBX 'motion only' from MB to LW, but I imagine going retargeted FBX 'motion only' directly from iPi DMC to Lightwave would be even easier.)

Looking forward to seeing what you do with the system.

G.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 25
Hey Greenlaw! :)
Thanks for the reply here.
I'm still getting my head wrapped around character stuff as I'm normally a "blow up space ships" kind of guy as you know.
More and more LightWave people are popping up because we need to be able to do character stuff fast in LW and this is a great solution for tight budgets that need great results. ipisoft would be very wise to push hard into the LW arena. (Hint hint).

There are a couple things going on here (and one of which I'm sure you might want to get in on) -
First is I'm doing an NFB short film for a company in Vancouver and we are looking at doing a lot of mocap for it. Second, due to the nature of the characters its a perfect opportunity for me to take advantage of our latest plug-in due out soon which brings me to point 3, Weighter2 in .p form for lightwave. Alexx and Kiko have been hard at work on it and it should release VERY soon (maybe this weekend, if things go well).
Anyway, I want to use iPiSoft to do the mocap because its relatively fast (although I like jimmyrig because its real time and support LW stuff right out of the box as its primary formats) and from what I am seeing now for results, I'm rather impressed.
Trick for me is to get the data over and onto these characters in LightWave with the least amount of fuss and without having to go into motionbuilder if I can possibly avoid it as this show does have a small budget and thats another app that I don't want to spring for.

If during FBX export Ipisoft exported its actual character with its weights and bones along the way I could use Weighter to transfer the weights to another character and bang, done like dinner. But since it doesn't I have to figure out the best way to do that now. I was hoping to avoid duplicating the rig by hand and DStorms LoadBones.p, needs an object with bones in it in the first place to take from a scene so you can convert them back into skelegons which could then be copied to any other character.
Bah!
Anyway, any hints or help would be awesome and very much appreciated.
This is all dress rehearsal/research for my own movie somewhere down the line later this year, so I'm hoping I can get this all figured out ASAP. This project just happened to time itself out perfectly and the subject matter (mocap/bones/characters on the cheap using kinects and ipisoft) magically all came together after I got back from finishing up on Iron Sky in december.
It's going to be fun I hope :) I really like this software, I just wish it was a bit more LW friendly thats for sure.

Oh yeah, I should also mention this project is in stereo! :) weee! =^..^=


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:51 am 

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:05 am
Posts: 53
Kat...

Ull find it very straightforward and simple. First off, the FBX IO in LW is just fine, there's no real workflow interrupts by not having direct lwo/lws access. If you want to cut other tools (like MB or whatever) out of the pipe, then its simple enough, just export your character with bones from LW as fbx, bring into ipi after tracking, and retarget in there, export back out and merge back to your LW scene.

Tbh though... ipi DOES need cleanup (as does pretty much every mocap system Ive ever seen) so not having an app somewhere to do that will limit your final quality of animation.

But one way or the other, the process is very easy, and quick.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:18 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 2423
Location: Los Angeles
RebelHill wrote:
Tbh though... ipi DOES need cleanup (as does pretty much every mocap system Ive ever seen) so not having an app somewhere to do that will limit your final quality of animation.

Yes, and the degree of iPi DMC clean up, I found in working on my shorts, depends on the shape of your character and what it's doing. For example, the 'Brudders' characters have really big heads and short arms, so it's easy to get hands inside the head whenever the characters raise their arms. The 'chainsaw dance' in 'Happy Box' is a prime example; this was fairly easy to correct in MB using layers, and it appears Jimmy|Rig should have no trouble fixing this sort of 'error' too. The other type of error I run into is if the characters are handling props, especially with both hands like with musical instruments. In such cases usually have to guide the hand positions using constraints, auxiliary effectors and layers. The first two shots with Sergeant handling the box in 'Happy Box' are good examples. This was a little trickier but not too bad if the original pantomime is somewhat accurate.

There are a few shots in Happy Box where there is virtually no cleanup. Of course, most of the short is the characters just sitting around. :p

G.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:15 pm 

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:05 am
Posts: 53
Greenlaw wrote:
RebelHill wrote:
There are a few shots in Happy Box where there is virtually no cleanup. Of course, most of the short is the characters just sitting around.


I presume that those are the shots where the characters are obviously "wobbling" a lil bit. Classic ipi jitter that is. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:34 pm
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Location: Los Angeles
RebelHill wrote:
I presume that those are the shots where the characters are obviously "wobbling" a lil bit. Classic ipi jitter that is. ;)

Yes. In fact, I think those might've been the one or two single Kinect shots from the original capture session, before dual Kinect was available, that I decided to keep. Back then, I was really pressed for time so I just added the head motions and thought I would come back after Gothober was over to stabilize the motion. But by then I decided I kinda liked the 'wobblies' and left them alone. (Mostly, I just wanted to get on with the next project.) :p

G.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 25
Hey guys.
I have had some time to do some more testing and I'm getting excellent results for what I need to do (when you see what the nature of the characters are eventually it will make more sense).
I have found that the fastest way to get mocap back into LW is to export MotionBuilder BVH format from ipiSoftDMC and from a blank scene import that BVH data, then the top null Hip_1 or whatever it is, I then do a object replace and do so with my character. Pow. It's in there and ready to rock. Save scene and its good.

I would still like to see LWO/LWS support though in ipiSoft DMC because it would be a time saver on my end not having to go out FBX for the models and I need to track changes and having to deal with 2 formats instead of one is going to get confusing a bit. Even better would be if it supported some kind of app link function like messiah and 3Dcoat and now GoZ for zBrush.


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