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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:27 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:27 am
Posts: 6
Hi

Hopefully, I can get a bit of insight from fellow users and the guys at IPI.

Apologies it's a long post, but I'll detail out as much as I can and that might help narrow the issue down - or make somebody have a 'euraka' moment :)

I have a major problem that's slowed me down now for 2 (constant) days of set-up, calibrate, 'hand fix calibs', run motion test (etc) - then repeat... and I've resorted to the forum for advice.

Issue: Using the latest build on one Win8 system (I'm running a 30 day trial to test) or the last build I have (my licence) on a completely different Win7 machine, I am getting cameras stacked on each other... in either calibration method (180 or 90).

I initially missed this and thought it was set-up error, but I've broken down and rebuilt the setup so many times now (with the same result), that I'm stumped.

Essentially, on the latest build or the last build I had, on two different machines, no matter where I put the cameras, the calibration always results in cam 1 & 2 being stacked on each other.

This is slowing me down, as I'm trying to build a clean set-up for some important motion data I need to create, but, as I have to keep making a calibration match myself (ie manually spinning and adjusting a camera to approximate where it should be in terms of the volume), I'm sort of chasing my tail, rather than perfecting a decent capture volume, I'm fighting the fact that IPI won't recognize any of the second camera positions. So, I am rebuilding again and again, trying to get something that auto-detects 2 cameras properly (so I can then refine my capture setup).

The problem is weird, as the setup worked previously, and I've been battling this since Monday evening :(

Note: I can, as I've said, manually fix the calib (by hand) and use this to apply to captures, but I'm getting mixed results here... one really good (with the best walking I've had) but sadly, that was an earlier test and the position of the cameras and volume has changed since then and most others exhibit twitchy shoulders and the odd 'snappy leg' issue that I've seen quite a bit on older data. I'm sure I can get an optimal volume, but the fact that I am hand 'hacking' each calib, is so hit and miss... and incredibly time consuming!

Background: I've owned IPI Standard Edition for a while and last used it in production back in 2012 (although I've been re-using some of the capture from it for a while). I had a set-up (dual kinects) that worked and a good calibration for 180 (that worked best for the motions I needed).

The version I'm using is v2.1.2.19 (recorder) and V2.2.1.145 (studio) - however, this was the last update I installed but was NOT the version I captured my last working data from, that was a late 2011 version. I do remember that there were issues with stacked cameras back then, but I'd presumed the latest version would fix this.

So, I duplicated my set up (I work in the industry, so I'm used to having to TD once in a while and can be very methodical if need be), the volume is in a store room and everything was pretty much as it was (I had a bit of dusting to do, LOL!). However, this first test failed, and I subsequently went on to rebuild the space another 6 or 7 times, before I realized that the cameras where stacked.

I then thought this was the old version I was working on, so I grabbed a 30 day trial, and installed on a fresh machine (a duplicate of the laptop I use for mo-cap), as I have a few of these I use for render nodes (which means they're very clean systems - no bloatware). The fresh install (with latest MS drivers etc), gave me the exact same results... stacked cameras.

To make sure data was unique to each system (ie old and new) I captured different files for the old/new (but in the same set-up) as, obviously, the old system has older drivers etc. Again, the same issue.

So, I thought that it could be cables or the Kinects, or connection issues, or streaming etc. I've ruled each one out by testing/swapping (ie the Kinects are fine, each works on it's own - or in dual step up, albeit with stacked data). cables are fine, streaming for recording is fine. The laptops have 2 USB hubs, a USB2/3 and a USB3. Interestingly, the USB2/3 hub can handle the two connects (I normally plug into opposite hubs), so I may look at getting a 3rd Kinect at some point and seeing if that works... so, I've ruled out hardware. In terms of drivers, the old system is 1.5 and the latest IPI is running the version it wanted to download (1.8?).

So, any insights or thoughts? I'm about to rebuild the set-up again now (after some food :), but the extra hours and hours of testing/calibration due to the stacked cameras is painful.

One thing, in terms of a major feature request, in any update or next version, would it b possible to have a numeric input on the cameras, so I could simply rotate and re-position numerically, or some way of applying off-sets or a 'fix' mode that spins the data correctly? This would have greatly helped with my current problem of hand fixing the calib... it would, at least, have made things simpler.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:03 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2355
Location: Moscow, Russia
Hi

The issue is not related to hardware problems. Most probably, you're doing something during calibration recording or processing.

You say that you're using iPi Mocap Studio 2.2.1.145. In that version, there is a choice between 90 and 180 degrees setup when creating a new calibration project (and the same option on the "Calibration" tab). Do you set this option appropriately?
From version 2.3.0.146, this choice was removed, because configuration is detected automatically. But you should move the calibration board considerably to get this autodetection work properly. Some users experienced troubles with stacking the cameras after updating to this version, because the algorithm cannot distinguish between 0 and 180 degrees having the lack of board's motion. To overcome this, they need to move the board in a wider range (nearer and farther from the sensors).
From version 2.4.1.156, the flashlight calibration method is available for depth sensors. You can try to use it as possible alternative solution.

If you wish, you may send us your calibration video for testing. Use some file sharing service for that.

Of course, I encourage you to upgrade to the latest releases of iPi Mocap Studio (2.6.1.163) and iPi Recorder (2.2.2.29). Software has come a long way since then and has got some nice features.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:19 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:27 am
Posts: 6
Hi

The issue I am having is that I am following the exact process I used, that worked every time, when I last used IPI.

I am now running the old version (my full licence) on 1 laptop and a new trial on another laptop - so I can test differences. I am in the middle of a project and it is good practice never to change a production pipeline or update software (or change machine configs) until the job is out of the door.

I'm lucky in that I have a few clean (new) laptops to test on! :)

The issue is that on both 90 or 180 (180 is my pref) on both versions (oldest one and the latest one, as I am testing both), I am having trouble (I'm now onto my 4th day on this - my expectation was to get calibrated and capturing within a few hours).

So, I gave up on the old version a few days back and have been doing all testing on the latest build, on a new machine (with zero legacy). I am still having to manually orbit/flip/zoom (etc) to try and get the calib to work - and this is the time killer as I'm noticing issues with the ground planes and sync.

I concede that it might be an issue with the way I move the calib board - although I have always tilted it and produced a motion that isn't simply 'turning' - but this will only become apparent when you have some test files from me.

I'm going to try a few more things today, but I have a kinect positioning that I'd like to keep, so I'll try a few more alternates with the calib, and then look to send material over.

Thanks for the response :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:28 pm 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2355
Location: Moscow, Russia
Quick tip - here's the video demonstrating the proper movements of the calibration board:
http://vimeo.com/bassill/sample-motion-pattern-for-calibration-board


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:27 am
Posts: 6
vmaslov wrote:
Quick tip - here's the video demonstrating the proper movements of the calibration board:
http://vimeo.com/bassill/sample-motion-pattern-for-calibration-board


Hi - just a quick update :)

Both this style of calib listed above, the 90 version, or the older style 180 (Jimer Lins’ tutorial -motion capture for SFM) which was my preferred/original method (as this gave me the best results back in Aug-Nov 2012), have all failed to be recognized properly by the latest IPI Studio... the cameras are stacked in all versions. Very odd.

So, I've ordered up a mini-mag light and will do some more testing with that. As I want to see what this will do with my 'cursed' mo-cap room - LOL! :)

However, in the short term, I've had to resort to a 'by hand' fix/calib, that is giving me a decent result (fairly flat feet and only a few body/keg clicks/errors) - so, as my deadlines are pressing, I'm just getting on with the capture that should have been done this week... so a bit of catch up to do.

If all goes well and I can get a decent data set for the shots needed, once I get things processing, I'll do some more testing and send over file samples (directly to Andrew).


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:28 am 
iPi Soft

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 am
Posts: 2355
Location: Moscow, Russia
It's interesting to guess what may be be your problem. So, a few more questions:
What are the numbers in "Calibration Statistics" displayed on the "Calibration" tab after the calibration is done?
What is the size of the calibration board you use? At least 50x70cm (20x30'') is recommended.


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