I know that I need a pro package to do this through ipisoft.
A few months ago I asked about this and am now reading over old posts not really sure if i have an easy answer to my question.

I know that Ps3 cameras can do multiple actors in a single recording session.

Can Kinect do the same?
can I record 2-3 actors interacting with each other with 2 Kinect V2s? do I need a 3rd. Does a 3rd work and do I need a 3rd computer, Kinect V2 sensor, Adaptor, etc?

I'm not even going to talk about Kinect v1. I'm past that....but if I have to do get it to work, I will.

Let's pretend I have a pro package that allows for the 2-3 person processing. Do I have enough cameras and computers to make this a reality? No sidestepping. No tricks. Simply record 2-3 actors at the same time and have a resulting 2-3 actor FBX file available to me when I'm done?

:)

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All motion can only be exported as single files, as far as I know. meaning you can't get a single file with 2-3 skeletons/characters in it.

This is done in post, but you can leave the re-center actor coordinates button unchecked to maintain the actor grid position in each file, may help on re-alignment in other 3D editors.

Check iPi Docs for more info.

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Yes, Snapz is right that actors should be exported one by one, and then combined in 3D editor.

As to cameras, it is very important to have more views to minimize mutual occlusion of actors.
That's why PS3 Eye cameras are much more recommended.

With Kinects you can track only 2 actoras and relatively simple motions when actor are not close to each other (like handshake). If one actor occludes another in one sensor, you'll get tracking error.
Also, you'll have a separate computer for each Kinect v2.

As to PS3 Eye cameras, we recommend to use at least 4 cameras per actor. So 12 cameras is good enough for 3 actors.
If you do not have super-powerful modern desktop, you'll have to use 2 computers for recording.

More details can be found here: http://docs.ipisoft.com/Multiple_Actors

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iPi Soft

Thanks for responding so quickly:). The stuff mentioned I kind of already know about recording two actors and exporting 2 different FBx files. Couldn't imagine it being any other way if you plan to skin each character :). I also know that PS3 is the way to go for recording. The obvious issue if you've ever done it and I know you both have is that you need several conditions to be good; the most difficult being space to shoot. I wasn't aware of tracking errors. By math, I would hope to guess that more cameras means better tracking which is why Kinect may not be recommended for multiple actors. For one actor it's gold and I know because I've done it flawlessly with 2 Kinect v2s and 2 machines for distributed recording along with 3 Move controllers. It's space that I fear being a fight for and that's always been the case. But it could be done with Kinects. Right? Not fast movements bnot recommended, but it is possible? I wouldn't want to set up a stage and have 2 actors going at it together and against each other only to find out the hardware can't do the job. If I had 3 kinects and 3 computers. Would that help more? 4 kinects and 4 computers? If PS3 is the only way to do this, I'll find a way to avoid Kinect problems altogether, but I know it's easier to set up and calibrate them with fewer environmentalist conditions holding me back. Thanks again for responding so quick. Let me know more if you have done it with Kinect setups that just work with multiple actors and as few anticipated problems as possible. I want to use Kinect but only because spaces may be against me. I just want Kinect to work. It it may be a horrible idea

Well, as I mentioned, it is possibe to use Kinects for multiple actors tracking, but you will be limited to relatively simple motions.
3 Kinects will be much better than 2, but 4 Kinects should not make dramatic difference compared to 3. At least better than 3.
3 Kinects should be placed in a triangle.

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iPi Soft

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I don't know how much head room room you have in your capture volume, but a good way to separate actors and avoid a lot of occlusion is to put, (in your case), at least 2 cameras pointing directly down from above in the center, point the view slightly away from each other, but not much, and the Actor will snap to refit once aligned in any other camera, when properly calibrated.

This would take at least a minimum 10 ft ceiling height, (more if available), for raised arms, jumps, etc., and also to encompass a larger area of view on the floor, but it will work to limit actor occlusion issues.

Depending on how many cameras you want to use, you could do this with 3 cameras also, set the rest as you normally would.

I don't know if you tried this method, but it does work with enough height above and remember to set the correct camera flip in its settings.

This can not be done with Kinects.

Also, I don't know if you know this, but as long as you can point all cameras to continuously see the light for calibration, it should calibrate correctly, but every camera does not have to always have a view of the actor to work, you can walk in and out of it's view completely and it will continuously track from other cameras.

This is good if you want to track long narrow walk paths, where you leave one camera view to enter into another.

The light must be continuously seen throughout the calibration procedure in all cameras for best results, so they still need to be pointed more toward a center floor point.

It is also better to not use a lot of bright lighting with PS Eyes, or at least manually adjust the gain and exposure settings lower if you do, you can set these parameters per camera, they don't all have to be the exact same, but with good conditions they should all be close, this will also help with tracking errors along with proper saturated color clothing with a tighter fit and colored gloves. White and yellow I personally avoid, but colors are your choice.

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Cool:). You can understand why I fight for Kinect over ps3. PS3 is hands down better but I think having the space and light to go with it is a challenge. It's a tough call on cost for everything I'll need to buy. It's almost a tie between good tripods and clamps versus Kinect v2 adapters, another Kinect v2...and of course a 3rd computer which I'd much rather hassle a friend to install the free recorder. I think I'm going to get both PS3 and Kinect gear arsenals which is going to take a little time to buy over time. Once I go pro package, the clock will be ticking for shooting. Excited:). Thank you ipisoft!

In response to snapz,
I do know about tracking the light and setting the cameras up for PS3. I can do 6 easily. Haven't tried it since last year but now that I have a 2nd computer, I'm sure I can go up to at least 8. Maybe 10-12 if I'm lucky. Most of what I plan to do will be centralized; the acting will take place with some but not much walking in or out of frame. Of course I plan for some. Thanks snapz! I remember you liked my George Carlin Bear. Thanks for that again too. My next project in mind is a little more than a dancing bear. Just need to get my gear in order and 2 actors interacting is vital. Cleanup of the 3D meshes will be part of that job but at least the life of the performance will guide me...or at least I hope it does enough to not drive me nuts:)

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You can also set up outside if inside area is too small, just have to work with the sunlight.

Outside, if on penetrable ground, you can just drive some 1 inch or slightly larger diameter pvc pipe into the ground and tape the Eyes to it, or tripods, or cheap A frame ladders, anything that will remain stable, even a DIY 3 leg 1x1 wood tripod, whatever is used, remember to secure the weight from the hanging cords off the cameras to the mounting device.

Kinects are ok for simple actions, and may be a good choice for many of your motions, even with 2-3 actors where occlusion isn't a factor.

The new algorithm is a bit different, so may need to get used to it, but if all other set up parameters are good, it works well when used in conjunction with all the other iPi integral tools.

Good Luck, hope you post the finished project when complete :)

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Hmmmm.... I never considered driving ground friendly pipes for outdoors:) they'd have to be pretty thick. Like 8" diameter. My tripod suck if even a breath of air hits them; they wiggle. This is definitely something I'm going to consider. And a sledgehammer maybe to drive them in. Thanks!! I will share when I'm ready. A. Lot of preproduction to do

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No.. 8 in dia. is way to much, 1 1/2 inch should be plenty, was for me anyway, but of course they were max, 1.8 m out of ground, so more dia. to height is probably notable, wouldn't think over 4 inch though, and I used a 45 degree elbow to extend my high side cams out where I needed them, and connected the cross bars, I didn't experience shaking from wind, but I don't record on a bad day for it either.

Depending on what you want to put into in cost and area you have, you can also build a PVC pipe frame with sectioned mounting points and a high point cross member for over head cam attachment and even cover it all with drop cloths for a sun shielded room, that can also be taken down and stored easily, rolling it all in one roll. can be easily transported too that way.

Don't glue the connections, but if need better securing for this frame method, just drill small holes in the couplings and use a small set screw instead.

I have a small tower comp I set up for 6 cam portable rig now, recorder doesn't require much power to work fine, save to external HDD for easy access from my processing machine.

Just some suggestions for you or any others that want more capture volume fairly cheap and easy for PS Eyes set ups.

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